To expect staff to keep this day free, even if not contracted to work?

[Newyeargrinch]

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

Yeah sure. They will tell you anything to your face.

What do you think they say behind your back? Thats the important one.

Well exactly, Ive had awful managers I have been nice about to their face because it wasnt worth the hasstle they would have kicked up from being honest

I think anyone who criticises others hyperbole whilst massively using it themselves, who constantly puts others down, ignores that everyones life isnt like theirs and thinks everyone should want what they want and do what they want is highly unlikely to be an admired manager!

I'd do it for the employer I work for now, in fact I have done things I really don't want to do for the employer I work for now and that have been to my detriment really, but they've helped the business in the short or even long term.
I've done that because my employer has the same attitude towards me, respects me and the fact life happens sometimes and I've had those 'favours' returned when I've needed them, I like working there and I like the give and take aspect of it. It's also respected when I do say no because I can't do it that particular time.
I also do see some of the benefits of increased business that comes from my input and not just keeping my job. I think it's more appealing as well because it's traditionally an industry where staff are treated poorly and paid a pittance, so the difference is obvious.

I've worked other places where it would have been an absolute no because the 'favours' only ever went one way, the staff were expected to be flexible and help the business whilst the company worked to rule and wouldn't do anything they didn't have to, and even then they would usually try a few stunts that they weren't supposed to.

So to have the whole team push back OP, are you one of the first employers or one of the second? Because your teams attitude towards you is normally a direct reflection of how you treat them.

I think anyone who criticises others hyperbole whilst massively using it themselves, who constantly puts others down, ignores that everyones life isnt like theirs and thinks everyone should want what they want and do what they want is highly unlikely to be an admired manager!

Please tell me where I've done this.....
I haven't 'constantly' put anyone down
I haven't said everyone's life is like mine / I've been very clear that I'm talking about me personally
I don't think everyone should want what I want - again I said that for me personally steer progression is important but I know that's not the case for everyone.

You may not agree with my views (which is fine!) but the personal attacks are unnecessary.

The op knew what was going to happen when she posted this thread. She's probably reading everyone's posts and having a good ol' chuckle 🤭 with a bag of popcorn.

What do you think they say behind your back? Thats the important one.

True. And ultimately I'll never know. However, I think my team are fabulous and I respect every one of them and I do my best to support them and their careers. That's all I can do really.

But them having told you that is meaningless, and you assuming that your subordinates are telling you the truth isn't great no. The test would be what they had to say about it in a situation where they can speak without repercussions, not what you've chosen to believe. Wonder if any of them are on this thread?

I know there is no way of understanding exactly how people feel but my organisation does carry out an annual quality of working like survey that is completed by staff anonymously and collated by an external organisation. We only get the top level data but our department always does well with staff saying they feel respected, have opportunities to progress and have a good work life balance.
We're not complacent though and I take the well being of my team very seriously. We've just gone through a very tricky restructure and I did all I could to protect my team during that time.

You're looking at an employees 168 hours in a week and thinking you can take any part of it you wish, with threats of negative repercussions if they don't comply. That's what I mean by giving their life. You believe your employee, that may be contracted to work 22 hours a week should be available at your beck and call.

What I mean by that is, expecting you can expect things of an employee outside of days they are contracted to work and threatening they will be viewed negatively if they don't. That's poor management.

I said going above and beyond helped my career...and it has.
I do not, and never, have expected someone to 'give their whole life' to their job.

What I did say was I'd rather promote someone who was willing to work flexibly over someone who would tell me to fuck off for asking them to work a Saturday. It was the 'fuck off' bit I object to!

I don't think that is too controversial!

You're looking at an employees 168 hours in a week and thinking you can take any part of it you wish, with threats of negative repercussions if they don't comply. That's what I mean by giving their life. You believe your employee, that may be contracted to work 22 hours a week should be available at your beck and call.

There is a shit load of assumptions and projection going on here!!

Where is the threat of negative repercussions? Where I have I said I expect people to be at my beck and call?

it generally goes something like this......

An email gets sent to staff saying here are all the open days for the year and can you let me know which ones you are available to work with a reminder that they get time and half TOIL for working a Saturday and double for a Sunday ( we can't pay overtime)

All the "drama", "end of the world" and etc like comments are putting others down and just as personal

My firm does the satisfaction survey too but most people are still reluctant to tell the truth (or they do but tone it down significantly) because they know that even if they are personally anonymous they worry it still might get back to the manager or the team atmosphere will be strained if everyone says what they think and the department scores badly.

I’ve been a manager myself, I really looked after my team and had a lot of loyalty from them and for this very reason I wouldn’t dream of thinking it was appropriate to do what the OP’s done.

I agree. Probably loving the 8 pages of responses

Your 'authenticity' doesn't magic up free childcare, elder care, or remove other pre-existing obligations (like second jobs) or commitments (sports teams) from other people's lives.

It's a job people are paid to do so they can support their actual lives.

Same at places where I have worked

We had one manager at one place who eas vile. He would get us all in a room and quiz us on what we had scored and commented and demand to know who had said what.

All of his feedback and scores in the surveys were wonderful right up until he got fired for bullying by HR

They may reflect the truth but in my experience people are often cautious to be truthful in them

But but but how else will you be promoted by someone who actively discriminates against women because caring duties predominantly fall to them?

My firm does the satisfaction survey too but most people are still reluctant to tell the truth (or they do but tone it down significantly) because they know that even if they are personally anonymous they worry it still might get back to the manager or the team atmosphere will be strained if everyone says what they think and the department scores badly.

I agree...and I have to complete them too so I know how it feels!
Which is why I go off other cues too. I've been around a long time and I think you can pick up on when a team is happy and motivated and when there are issues.
Not always but I can only try my best.

I’ve been a manager myself, I really looked after my team and had a lot of loyalty from them and for this very reason I wouldn’t dream of thinking it was appropriate to do what the OP’s done.

I've agreed all along that the OP managed this very badly. There is nothing wrong with asking people to work a Saturday but you can't do it the way the OP has!

But but but how else will you be promoted by someone who actively discriminates against women because caring duties predominantly fall to them?

Hahah you really are making stuff up now!
Look I get it, you've decided you don't like me but you are being ridiculous now.

Your 'authenticity' doesn't magic up free childcare, elder care, or remove other pre-existing obligations (like second jobs) or commitments (sports teams) from other people's lives.

It's a job people are paid to do so they can support their actual lives.

Which is why I agree with ALL the other posters who say the OP has handled this badly.
I don't force people to work Saturdays but it is in their job description that a degree of flexibility is required but that flexibility can take many forms.
I have had people tell me they can't work a Saturday because of all the things you have listed as well as a having a season ticket for the football! However they are generally flexible in other ways so it all works out.

I wasn't replying to you, I didn't tag you, I didn't name you

I was referring to the OP who is demanding everyone work overtime regardless

You appear to think this whole thread is about you and your situation

@dimllaishebiaith
The OP didn't mention anything about promotions .......

so

It's not really fair to accuse someone of discriminating against people!

You said 'I'd rather promote someone was willing to be flexible than someone who told me to fuck off for requesting a Saturday 10 months in advance.'

I mean you could have offered them overtime, tine and a third/ time and a half plus the time in lieu and seen of there were any volunteers……some people might jump at the chance.

Yes, and?

I do value flexibility over rudeness! If an employee told me to fuck off because I'd asked them to work a Saturday 10 months in advance then we'd be speaking to HR.

What I haven't said is that I would only promote people who work Saturdays....that would be wrong.