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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect staff to keep this day free, even if not contracted to work?

983 replies

Newyeargrinch · 19/02/2024 08:47

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

OP posts:
Tallisker · 19/02/2024 09:00

As a minimum you need to offering time and a half AND a day in lieu.

fournaansjeremy · 19/02/2024 09:01

Nope. If it's a Saturday in December I think you'd be reasonable to offer time and a half as an incentive for people who want to help. But otherwise no, you can't just tell people they have to work on a non working day.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 19/02/2024 09:01

YABU. You can't take someone's Saturday and give them back a weekday - the two days are not of equal value, and there is no childcare on Saturdays.

VainAbigail · 19/02/2024 09:01

What’s with all the “expecting”?!

Im not sure if you think your business is more important than staffs lives but it really isn’t to them!

Noideawwhatsoccuring · 19/02/2024 09:02

I take it this is a reverse? Someone’s boss has said this and you are scoping opinions?

Just tell the story from your point of view.

I believe it’s a reverse because no one would write that out, read it back and think it was acceptable at all.

Dancerprancer19 · 19/02/2024 09:02

I’m genuinely laughing at all the “absolutely not” responses…. So many sectors your responses would just make you look totally off your rockers….

Acolddayinhell · 19/02/2024 09:02

Yes you need to roster them in and pay them for their time. It’s great it will help grow the business for you, you don’t get to make them do this for free though. I speak as someone who once did way too much free work for a company , I was admin and got sucked into to doing a full rebrand and loads of graphics work which ended up being an act of altruism. Still cross to this day and now don’t get out of bed for less than my set fees.

EMUKE · 19/02/2024 09:02

Yeah it’s a no from me too. Yes the event will bring in potential business for you however that doesn’t impact the staff. If they work the Saturday then they work but if not then no, an extra day doesn’t help. A Saturday for most is the only day to do errands and sort house and shop. It doesn’t even matter if they are at home on the couch. Contracted hours are just that but no one needs to make themselves available as and when you need them. It would be different if they were on amazing wages, flexi hours and you are a give/take company however after reading a email demanding to keep the day free and with be given TOIL nah… people don’t go the extra mile any more for a reason too many businesses take advantage.

Notahotmess · 19/02/2024 09:02

I'd also like to know what staff benefits you offer beyond the statutory minimum.

Too often "small" businesses expect the moon on a stick from their staff whilst offering absolutely nothing in return.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 19/02/2024 09:02

Itscatsallthewaydown · 19/02/2024 08:50

Personally I’d have told you to fuck off.

Me too.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 19/02/2024 09:03

If I only worked weekdays and an email came round saying I had to work on a Saturday for TOIL, there is no way I would be doing that.

If you asked for volunteers and were paying double pay, I'd consider it. However I take two weeks off over Christmas. If it was in that time I would not attend whatever you paid me.

Notahotmess · 19/02/2024 09:03

Dancerprancer19 · 19/02/2024 09:02

I’m genuinely laughing at all the “absolutely not” responses…. So many sectors your responses would just make you look totally off your rockers….

Most of the sectors you're talking about have an archaic attitude to how employees are treated, that's why.

Mazuslongtoenail · 19/02/2024 09:04

Well when you tell people what you expect of them in their free time vs motivating them to want to be part of it you’ll get a very different result.

Propertynightmare24573 · 19/02/2024 09:04

I would be looking for a new job if that kind of notice came out with a forced expectation for me to work on my day off.

thecatsthecats · 19/02/2024 09:05

Lots of staff being present isn't necessarily the bonus you think it is. I fight shy of gangs of t shirted staff crowding round a stall.

One great way to have people engage with you at an event is to not have someone chasing commission bothering them as soon as they show interest. Use the ten month lead you have to get some leaflets and signs printed for those of us who like to browse before talking.

RatatouillePie · 19/02/2024 09:05

Even with 10 months notice, you are ALWAYS going to get the moaning brigade.

They'll moan they have little kids and can't find childcare. They'll moan they don't want another day off in lieu etc... People will find an excuse if they want to.

Some people will no doubt have a genuine reason why they can't.

It's a lovely gesture what the company is doing.

I'd just go with the flow, don't pressurise anyone, and any staff that do come in on their day off to attend the event, I'd not only give them a day off in lieu, I'd then present them with a surprise Christmas hamper to thank them for having a positive attitude towards charity events and for supporting the company.

Lifebeganat50 · 19/02/2024 09:05

Hard no from me.

I work a lot of weekends as it is so my weekends off are precious.

If you then roster me that day, with 10 months notice, I’ll be ill that day (I work set shifts so know years in advance what my working days are)

Theresstilltonighttocome · 19/02/2024 09:05

Dancerprancer19 · 19/02/2024 09:02

I’m genuinely laughing at all the “absolutely not” responses…. So many sectors your responses would just make you look totally off your rockers….

And presumably this isn’t one of those sectors, otherwise the staff would be used to it and accept it.

Propertynightmare24573 · 19/02/2024 09:06

Notahotmess · 19/02/2024 09:02

I'd also like to know what staff benefits you offer beyond the statutory minimum.

Too often "small" businesses expect the moon on a stick from their staff whilst offering absolutely nothing in return.

Edited

This

You've got to have a culture or valuing your staff and fostering the good will before you ask for this kind of favour. Most staff will go above and beyond for an employer they respect and value, IF they too feel respected and valued. I suspect you have a workplace culture issue.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/02/2024 09:06

Bet your staff are feeling the love for you.

Are the ones that ‘volunteered’ brown nose types?

LameBorzoi · 19/02/2024 09:06

You say that "extra clients would benefit them". Actually, they don't - it benefits you.

Carwashandthemoog · 19/02/2024 09:06

You must have a high staff turnover if your company treats staff like this. You don’t own them, they are fully entitled to say no to this.

And a day in lieu isn’t enough for those who don’t usually work a Saturday, they will need a cash incentive.

getitgotitgood · 19/02/2024 09:08

What is the name of your business? I ask only because I don't want to inadvertently apply for a job with you.

Sorry, @Newyeargrinch , you have really queered your pitch here. Firstly, you should have consulted staff about availability/volunteering before committing to the event even if it is 10 months away
Secondly, a day in lieu is a crap alternative
Thirdly, have you outlined how a growth in your business benefits them? because I cannot see how an increase in Sainsbury's profits benefits the employees rather than the shareholders, so for a small business on tight margins, no benefit for employees

EarringsandLipstick · 19/02/2024 09:09

I voted YANBU - and then was amazed at the poll results so far!

However, having read the posts, posters make valid points, that I hadn't considered.

In my workplace (university), we are often expected to attend / participate in events outside of our core roles or core hours. It's often part of the 'wider good', like a community event, or to support some higher University initiative or so on. I'm at a level where I completely expect to do this, but it's really an expectation of all staff. However, staff are not forced or compelled in any other way - we genuinely, in the area I work in, have a good working environment (in that respect at least!) where colleagues are quite willing to do this.

I also worked in the private sector, in a consultancy; there weren't analogous events there but it wouldn't even have been considered to 'ask' - there were many times where we were expected to work beyond set hours or travel to site meetings at inopportune times. Yes, in theory, a 'no' might be possible. In reality, if you wanted to proceed and do well, you would do it - and again, most people broadly wanted to, knowing it would be rewarded in some other way, if not directly, and to give their clients the best service.

However, the comments do make some sense - I agree, it would be more sensible to work out your staffing requirements, roster staff and reward them appropriately - e.g. overtime or additional time off (not just 1 day in lieu).

I can't get over the posters saying they would tell OP to 'fuck off'. (Whether literally or less directly). If I'm not happy with something in work, I do my best to be an adult and say why, politely and see if there's an accommodation that can be made. I'm pretty certain in this case I would see the benefit to the firm and want to support it - although I do agree there were probably better ways of communicating the message to staff.

ludocris · 19/02/2024 09:09

Newyeargrinch · 19/02/2024 08:47

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

I'm sure this is a reverse. But if not, the extra business won't really benefit the staff will it? You're not going to increase their pay? It will benefit you as the business owner.

If it's a Saturday near Christmas I wouldn't be keeping it free for you.

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