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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect staff to keep this day free, even if not contracted to work?

983 replies

Newyeargrinch · 19/02/2024 08:47

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

OP posts:
Pollypocket81 · 19/02/2024 13:41

Offer double pay to volunteers plus a paid day off in lieu. You'll have enough.

ILoveNigelTufnel · 19/02/2024 13:43

Theatrefan12 · 19/02/2024 13:39

This! Especially at Christmas time. Child free will already be expected to pick up the shifts between Christmas and New Year because it’s “family time” and child free people don’t have families remember

It should be same policy for all, regardless of family status. Either no one should be expected to work (correct answer in this particular case) or everyone should be expected to work

Edited
Show quote history

Definitely this! People without children definitely do not have any family they might want to spend time with. Or any right to do what they want because some other people have children.
It’s the same issues every single year.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 19/02/2024 13:43

BreadandButterDinners · 19/02/2024 13:24

I wouldn't offer time and a half op, normal pay, a voucher and a day off another time would be a good incentive. If possible could people do half day each? So a morning crew and an afternoon crew?

would be a good incentive.

It wouldn't be an decent incentive for many for a Saturday in December!

BobbyBiscuits · 19/02/2024 13:43

Could you not hire a promotions company to do some of the work. The people at these agencies are usually very enthusiastic, outgoing etc. If I was your staff member, I would be well up for helping out and working the event, it sounds more fun than a day in the office/ normal workplace!
I think disciplining them for not doing it could be foolish. Get a bank of people who have fully agreed, then make up the numbers with temporary promotion staff? They could introduce the business and then lead people to someone permanent if they actually want to make a deal or whatever? Alternatively offer to pay them double? No doubt you'd get more takers. Carrots are better than sticks. Especially if it really is a Christmas event. You want them happy! It would probably be roughly the same as getting the external people in.

TheSameClip · 19/02/2024 13:43

Not unless it’s in my contract, no.

I work Mon-Fri 9-5, but my contract states I need to work one additional Saturday and two evenings each year to accommodate events.

If my contract didn’t say this, I certainly wouldn’t be working a whole extra day I’m not contracted to work out of goodwill. Are they getting a day off in lieu? Maybe then, with this amount of notice, I would work it.

SquidwardsHopesAndDreams · 19/02/2024 13:43

If I received an email from my line manager and they said "if you have nothing planned, you can keep the day free and will be expected to help", that would get my back up, especially if I don't ordinarily work on Saturday.

Ariela · 19/02/2024 13:44

There's no real incentive to work the Saturday, is there? I'd be offering time and a half off in lieu. Or a bonus for every new client signed up on the day split among the attendees on the day or whatever.

Time to get creative and make it a bit more desirable to be there on that Saturday.

Thedance · 19/02/2024 13:45

You are being very unreasonable. I would hate that and wouldn't be happy to work for a company that expected that type of commitment. I work hard while at work but my time is my time and don't expect to be at the beck and call of my employer in my own time

MrsSunshine2b · 19/02/2024 13:45

If you need volunteers who don't work Saturdays at the bare minimum you should be offering OT at double time. YABU.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 19/02/2024 13:47

ElaineMBenes · 19/02/2024 13:28

Not everyone’s lives are that simple and easy.

I understand that...but it is for lots of people. I work in a role which has evolved into having to work around 6 Saturdays a year. It was never in my contract but the job/sector has changed and it's now something we have to do. Lots of us manage it - around 30 staff from my dept. and over 100 form across the organisation worked this Saturday and all we get is a day of as TOIL.

There is also the principle of a work place thinking they are entitled to any/all of your time as it suits them.

I agree it could have been handled better but one day a year is hardly onerous. I worked between midnight and 4 am one day last week...that is definitely not in my contract!

If you want to inconvenience yourself and your family for your employer that’s your choice, but it has no bearing whatsoever on what other people’s priorities are.

People work to live, not the other way round.

whyhere · 19/02/2024 13:48

I am absolutely amazed by the vitriol (and the language!) on this thread. I've worked in vocational/caring types of professions all my (very long) working life, and the OP seems entirely reasonable to me.

All organisations are up against it at present, and jobs aren't easy to come by. Where's the loyalty to the organisation and the wisdom around being seen as loyal?

Beach11 · 19/02/2024 13:49

Ha- staff moral 0.
You can’t enforce this and have now annoyed all the staff so a back handed gesture will not help and you will have lost all good will.

Ithinkitstimeforbed · 19/02/2024 13:49

Is this for real 🤯 You knew “full well” people not contracted to work weekends would “come up with reasons why they couldn’t help” and they’ve been told they’re expected to keep it free? People are allowed to keep their spare time free to do absolutely nothing if they want. Ultimately extra money generated goes to the business owners and I imagine from the tone of the post it’s unlikely the staff get a generous bonus! If I was your employee I’d think you were totally taking the mick. I think you are being incredibly unreasonable.

user1487424951 · 19/02/2024 13:50

whyhere · 19/02/2024 13:48

I am absolutely amazed by the vitriol (and the language!) on this thread. I've worked in vocational/caring types of professions all my (very long) working life, and the OP seems entirely reasonable to me.

All organisations are up against it at present, and jobs aren't easy to come by. Where's the loyalty to the organisation and the wisdom around being seen as loyal?

Companies aren't loyal to their staff, everyone is replaceable. There is no "wisdom" to be seen as loyal except extra, uncompensated, expectations because you are "flexible " or a "team player"

BetsyBobbins · 19/02/2024 13:50

Bwahahahahaha, it's a hard no mate!

If I'm not supposed to be working on a day that they decide to have a "special event" on it, wild horses wouldn't drag me to such thing.

No one is irreplaceable in a work place as I've learned the hard way. Do you want my time? Pay for it!

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/02/2024 13:51

whyhere · 19/02/2024 13:48

I am absolutely amazed by the vitriol (and the language!) on this thread. I've worked in vocational/caring types of professions all my (very long) working life, and the OP seems entirely reasonable to me.

All organisations are up against it at present, and jobs aren't easy to come by. Where's the loyalty to the organisation and the wisdom around being seen as loyal?

Why would anyone be loyal to a company who treats them like this?

Loyalty works two ways.

RhubarbGingerJam · 19/02/2024 13:52

But most of the comments on this thread are not from people in this situation, they are from people who seem to think it's acceptable to tell their employer to 'fuck off'. For many, many people weekend work or being asked to work ONE Saturday TEN months in advance is not that big a deal.

They won't tell them to fuck off in those kind of words - they grumble at each other they may do a bit less care a bit less or if really pissed off job hunt.

The way it's been approached has burnt some good will.

I could probably mange this - given stage my kids are - but I still going to prioritize my family - older members and kids - over my work so if that only weekend they see us then no I can't volunteer that weekend and I wouldn't know that till later in the year. If it was my own business the focus would be very different.

PastorCarrBonarra · 19/02/2024 13:53

I’d probably agree nowadays. But when my kids were preteens and had different sports activities on Saturdays it would’ve been a hard “no.” Before I had children I always had social plans on a Saturday at Christmastime so again, I’d have had to decline. However - if you were really really stuck and asked politely (emphasis on politely) I’d have done my best to re-jig things …. but I’d not have felt compelled to.

I think you need more carrot less stick as others have explained. And a more pleasant tone in your next email, maybe.

Abeona · 19/02/2024 13:54

ElaineMBenes · 19/02/2024 13:31

Do you live your life by the principle that because it's okay for you, it must be okay for everyone else? That because you have a DH able and willing to pick up domestic slack everyone else will have one too?

Have I said that...no

Did you not stop to think outside your own situation for even a second?

Of course, I was TALKING ABOUT MY SITUATION but I still don't think it warrants some of the dramatic responses on this thread.
Would someone really tell their employer to fuck off because the asked them to work a Saturday?

They won't actually tell them fuck off face to face. They'll smile, say they'll be there, then phone on the day to say they've gone down with norovirus, Covid or whatever. Or just forget to turn up because there is, as various people in management have pointed out, no incentive for them to give up a Saturday just before Christmas.

OP has demonstrated a textbook way of alienating employees — and employees are the most valuable part of a business. OP clearly doesn't understand that.

SaunteringOnBy · 19/02/2024 13:55

whyhere · 19/02/2024 13:48

I am absolutely amazed by the vitriol (and the language!) on this thread. I've worked in vocational/caring types of professions all my (very long) working life, and the OP seems entirely reasonable to me.

All organisations are up against it at present, and jobs aren't easy to come by. Where's the loyalty to the organisation and the wisdom around being seen as loyal?

You can be as loyal as you want.
When the cuts start, and they will, loyalty will count for jack fucking poo.

It's not like it was 20-30-40 years ago.
"Don't sack that person, they've been here 30 years and always put the company first..."

I'd actually suggest that new people to any job spend 1 or 2 years putting the company first and doing all they can.. see how far up the pole they get..
9/10 they'll just be thought a mug whilst the mates of the bosses get promotion and pay rises.

Remember kids...
Everyone loves a hard worker... Because they're the twats doing all the work whilst every fucker else leaves them to it.

rainbowbee · 19/02/2024 13:55

Very unreasonable. I work weekdays. I don't have kids. But be that as it may, no employer can 'demand' my time off, even if it is 10 months ahead of time and you get the day back. Even if all I'm going to do is sit in my pants watching Netflix. It's the entitled demand that has put people's backs up,

Undisclosedlocation · 19/02/2024 13:56

If the senior management of a company I worked with were stupid enough to commit to an event they couldn’t staff and demanded I change my working hours to haul their arses out of the coals, i would refuse on principle
if however they asked me in advance and incentivised me appropriately, it would be a yes if I could

Appallingly bad management that appears to be getting exactly what it deserves

rookiemere · 19/02/2024 13:57

Particularly cheeky where employees said they were available and rather than a "Thank you that's great we will let you know asap" or simply rostering them in so they knew they would get paid, poor employees were told they were expected to keep the date free.

EeesandWhizz · 19/02/2024 13:58

I think your language is all wrong and your expectation that if nothing is planned now, nothing shall be planned going forward is selfish and patronizing. My DD is in a team of 4 competing regularly but without dates set so far in advance and so it's perfectly possible to be unavailable for 'your' Saturday.

And no, another parent can't take her - it's multiple horses staying away for the weekend.

Not everyone's life is as simple as yours.

rainbowbee · 19/02/2024 13:58

It would be an especially large no thank you if it were expected as a child-free person too. You should have offered an incentive.