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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect staff to keep this day free, even if not contracted to work?

983 replies

Newyeargrinch · 19/02/2024 08:47

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

OP posts:
TooOldForThisNonsense · 19/02/2024 11:24

saraclara · 19/02/2024 08:59

Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

Ouch. I can't believe you did that. So the ones who actually showed some goodwill got a snotty response? Why on earth would you do that?
You actually pissed off the most helpful and available of your staff? That makes zero sense, and you've now lost their goodwill, not just for this event, but in general. I expect them to be looking out for new jobs.

Agreed. This is the worst bit and would get my back right up. I’d be telling you in no uncertain terms after getting that email that no I wouldn’t be keeping it free or helping.

betterangels · 19/02/2024 11:24

gwenneh · 19/02/2024 11:21

If you want people’s time, you pay for it.

They don’t work for you out of the goodness of their hearts.

Absolutely this. YABVU.

PutMyFootIn · 19/02/2024 11:25

Are you talking about a Saturday in December? If so, behave!

DRS1970 · 19/02/2024 11:25

I think how you have gone about it is the unreasonable bit. In essence you are paying them to attend, and the payment is in the form another day off with pay. But you cannot dictate to staff that they will attend a function in what is likely a day off, which they don't normally work due to other commitments. I appreciate it is for the good of the company that pays their wages, but you don't own them, and they don't owe the company anything. So you cannot dictate to them what they do with their non contracted time. Perhaps next time consider asking if they could attend, and highlight those that are able will get a paid day off at another time, and leave it at that. GL

Freddoflation · 19/02/2024 11:28

I sounds like you asked (told) them in quite an obnoxious way. So I'd be put out by that.

RiceRiceMaybe · 19/02/2024 11:28

This cannot be real.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 19/02/2024 11:29

I'd probably be happy to do something like this with a day in lieu. If I was asked nicely. Demanding it would make me not volunteer.

It's not even about having plans or not. Sometimes I have no weekend plans but I'm bloody tired and want to rest. I wouldn't respond well to being told if I'm free I'm doing it.

dimllaishebiaith · 19/02/2024 11:31

it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

In my experience extra business very rarely translates into pay rises or bonuses. Instead it frequently translates into more work with the same number of staff whilst only financially benefitting the company owners/shareholders etc

You strike me as the sort of small business who thinks it's employees should be "grateful" to have a job where they are paid minimum wage, and is then confused when staff leave and there isn't a flood of similarly grateful applicants

Newchapterbeckons · 19/02/2024 11:31

‘Expected’ to help.

That is the issue.

Isitovernow123 · 19/02/2024 11:32

Are you giving them a day off in lieu for attending on the Saturday or paying enhanced rates? If not then absolutely being unreasonable.

hunpoint · 19/02/2024 11:33

Not being goady but how does it ultimately benefit the staff? Commission,
profit related pay, salary increases?

A Saturday near Christmas would be a no no for most people if that wasn’t their usual working day. You should have offered overtime or time and half and a day off in lieu and asked rather than told.

FacingDivorceButSad · 19/02/2024 11:35

That's a quick way to get 0 people come to help. You have as much right to ask them to do it as I have to ask you to keep weekends free. Total CF if you ask me

LoveAHamSandwhich · 19/02/2024 11:36

Wow, you have handled this appallingly badly. Are you a smallish family firm, by any chance?

You have sprung it on your employees with no consultation or explanation, and you're not even giving them extra time off, just the one day instead of the day you are demanding they work?

And you've built no framework in to ensure they do attend - you're just hoping some do, after your awful handling of it? You want them to give up a Saturday in DECEMBER for no extra anything?

Jog on, is what I would tell you.

Mouse82 · 19/02/2024 11:37

This will probably out me, but every year my work expect us to do the children's christmas party unpaid, either in the weekend or on a Friday. We start setting up at 4:30 and don't leave until the cleaning is all done so 9pm. If we don't attend, our job is literally on the line.

SaunteringOnBy · 19/02/2024 11:40

Fuck that shit.

If i'm contracted between 8-5 Wednesday to Saturday... I'm working 8-5 wednesday to Saturday.

I WILL NOT go above and beyond to line the pockets of my bosses, you pay, I work, otherwise, get fucked.

Why should I give up my time to bring in more custom that benefits only those above me? Will I get a raise? Will I get a bonus? Will I see any improvement to my conditions at all? No? Then kindly get screwed.

"Oh but if my business does well then I can hand out pay rises..."
"Oh but if your business does well, the first person to profit and benefit is you, not the salaried workers, so get to fuck or pay for my time. It's your business, not mine, if it fails, I just go get another job, so fuck it."

I am not what is called a 'model' employee...
I worked retail for a while, they expected my life to revolve around the work place and to be happy to be selling my limited time on earth to them for minimum wage... It didn't go well

LookItsMeAgain · 19/02/2024 11:41

BeardyButton · 19/02/2024 10:52

Hard no from me. You pay me. I do job that I am contracted to do. If you want something outside that contract, you ask… you make it attractive for me (extra pay, two - not one - day off in lieu) and I might say yes. I say no - that’s respected.

Your ’it’s A small ask’ tells me all I need to know. The culture is probably - you’re lucky to have this job. there’s an air of entitlement that rankles me.

Think about this in reverse. An employee comes and asks for smt extra to their contract (starting late, extra pay etc). Instead of proving they deserve it or that they ll make up the times, they start talking about ‘what a small ask it is’. You don’t like it now do you?!

100% this.

YouJustDoYou · 19/02/2024 11:42

LOL

IncompleteSenten · 19/02/2024 11:42

I hate reverses.

Yes, it is taking the fucking piss to expect staff to give up their free time.
Want staff there?
Pay them to be there.
Day off in lieu is not enough.
Accept the fact some may not want to give up their free time even if you pay them.

I swear businesses think their staff work for them for the sheer joy of it and have nothing to live for beyond their job. 🙄

Mnk711 · 19/02/2024 11:43

Not remotely reasonable. Any decision made should be thought about from different perspectives first, and then the communication about the decision again assessed from different POVs. Of course this was always going to go wrong. People have other commitments (e.g. children, caring) that they can't get out of just because you want them too. A Saturday is not the same as a weekday because people can't necessarily easily find additional childcare (which anyway they shouldn't have to pay for if you're asking them to vary their working hours). You're also wrong to assume because it's great for the company people would do it - in the greatest company which people love and want to help they are still going to have to manage their lives around it so they couldn't all go. And realistically most even enthusiastic employees need and value their personal time. What you should have done instead was:

  1. Ask not tell
  2. Share how important it is for the company and how important they will be yo the event
  3. Give anyone who needs one the opportunity to opt out e.g. carers
  4. Offer fair compensation (a day and a half minimum in TOIL as generally people are paid time and a half for weekend working) and an incentive (free pizza/eggnog/whatever)

The way this post was written feels quite superior, I hope it is a reverse because if it's not I suspect you have to learn quite a bit about management and leadership.

Headinthesand21 · 19/02/2024 11:43

Sorry but you are being completely unreasonable. If staff wouldn’t normally be rostered to work on that day, you can’t just expect them to.
In some cases it would also fall short of employment law as it could be argued that there is a change to conditions. An employment contract can only be varied if there is agreement or if the terms allow.
Perhaps more pertinently, you are also at risk of losing the goodwill and motivation of your employees.
I would make a very favorable offer and ask people to volunteer and sign up

Headinthesand21 · 19/02/2024 11:44

Mnk711 · 19/02/2024 11:43

Not remotely reasonable. Any decision made should be thought about from different perspectives first, and then the communication about the decision again assessed from different POVs. Of course this was always going to go wrong. People have other commitments (e.g. children, caring) that they can't get out of just because you want them too. A Saturday is not the same as a weekday because people can't necessarily easily find additional childcare (which anyway they shouldn't have to pay for if you're asking them to vary their working hours). You're also wrong to assume because it's great for the company people would do it - in the greatest company which people love and want to help they are still going to have to manage their lives around it so they couldn't all go. And realistically most even enthusiastic employees need and value their personal time. What you should have done instead was:

  1. Ask not tell
  2. Share how important it is for the company and how important they will be yo the event
  3. Give anyone who needs one the opportunity to opt out e.g. carers
  4. Offer fair compensation (a day and a half minimum in TOIL as generally people are paid time and a half for weekend working) and an incentive (free pizza/eggnog/whatever)

The way this post was written feels quite superior, I hope it is a reverse because if it's not I suspect you have to learn quite a bit about management and leadership.

This exactly

Tiddlywinks63 · 19/02/2024 11:45

LolaSmiles · 19/02/2024 08:57

Personally I’d have told you to fuck off.
Same here, but in a less blunt way.

If asked closer to the time whether I'd be willing to work the day and be paid time and a half or given TOIL, I might actually consider it if the company had a good culture of give and take.

As soon as someone tells me they expect me to keep my non-working time free for work, my availability and willingness would vanish and I'd be much less likely to give a little extra on other occasions too.

My sentiments too!
You have absolutely no right to expect your staff to give up their day off, unpaid, with a day of in lieu at some future point, pay for travel costs and childcare costs so you can look good in front of your bosses/company.
would expect double pay plus any extra costs involved plus a day of in lieu before I would even consider it. Telling your staff what you want them to do, in this manner, is very poor management manners and completely unacceptable and unrealistic.

C152 · 19/02/2024 11:45

YABU, OP. If they're not contracted to work, why on earth should they keep a Saturday free? And TOIL provides zero incentive to give up half a weekend if you don't normally work weekends. Be specific about what the business needs and what you will PAY people to be there. i.e. we need 10 staff prepared to work on x date for x hours. We appreciate this is outside of normal contractual hours, so we will be paying time and a half.

NamelessNancy · 19/02/2024 11:46

I can understand why people think it's a reverse because it seems so blatantly unreasonable. I can confirm there are definitely managers out there capable of pulling this shit though.

IncompleteSenten · 19/02/2024 11:49

NamelessNancy · 19/02/2024 11:46

I can understand why people think it's a reverse because it seems so blatantly unreasonable. I can confirm there are definitely managers out there capable of pulling this shit though.

That's true but they are generally much more manipulative and would have put better spin on it.

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