Recent-ish new highway rules that favour the pedestrian - I fear accidents

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

The stop and give way to a pedestrian crossing a road at a junction. That is what the majority of sensible road users have done anyway

Along with the above comes a new bit "Give way to pedestrians waiting to cross the road at a junction." This IMO will result in more accidents, EG, those that drive to close to the driver in front. The driver in front indicates to turn left like a good driver but at the junction off a main road is a pedestrian waiting to cross. The good driver stops to let the pedestrian cross and bang into the rear of the car goes the driver that was driving up their arse.

We often turn left into our close of a busy, main road and I always fear some seriously ignorant driver going into the rear of one of our cars if we had to suddenly pull up as there was another car shooting towards the main road as turning often has cars parked on one side.

If you are a good driver you should know this but here it goes: You are coming off a main, or road for that matter and hoping to turn left into another road. A pedestrian waiting to cross. You stop and there is a chance on the main/bigger roads the driver behind you is a moron and driving to close to you as you indicate and slow down before that. The rule applies to turning right as well but that is not as risky

AIBU to believe this new law will result in more harm than good, EG more car-to-car accidents when a car driver gives way to a waiting pedestrain/s to cross?
(I always slow down in advance to turn but have noted many times idiots right up th backside of our car and I think, what if I had to stop to allow someone across the road or there is something in the road and this new rule will just cause more accidents as many that have a licence have no idea how to drive safely and within the law)

I always try to keep a good distance as people turn into another road or their drive for that matter etc but I feel this new rule has not been well thought out

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-changes-you-need-to-know-from-29-january-2022

Hugely dangerous. As the vulnerable road user pedestrians should never assume the right of way, and I say that as one predominantly. When going overseas few counties adopt have this policy and our younger people assume cars will stop, ditto foreign drivers here who will be unaware of this rule

But @DistingusedSocialCommentator in the circumstances that not everyone takes responsibility, then the most vulnerable must be protected. Pedestrians are the most vulnerable. So even if they are irresponsible, they must have the most protection.

If you're on a motorbike it's not, we don't have a cage around us.

There's a junction in our town centre that worked perfectly well. It had traffic lights and a crossing
They removed those

So now turning from the high street into the side road to get out of town can take 10-15 mins as there's a constant flow of pedestrians across the side road who you have to give way to. Being a city centre it's busy!
Then when you try and turn they dart in front of you and you're waiting again

Why they removed the traffic lights and crossing I have no idea

@zaffa

You are not clear, please try again as I'm confused about "the most vulnerable must be protected.." - are you saying driver will knock over a fool who stepped into the road without looking, following the highway code, knock over the person in order to avoid being hit in the rear of your car?

Sorry If I have completely misunderstood you

FGS read the posts again, no one but no one is suggesting that.

What I have noted and tried to fix in a later post is to remind those pedestrians who think they have a right of way on every road and step onto the roads without stopping and looking read my post about pedestrian rules when they cross the road/s.

OP: please don't just quote selectively from the Highway Code. You've just told us that when you saw pedestrians about to cross the minor road you "often did a slight pap of the horn just to make them aware"? That is not what your horn is for! And sounds quite an intimidating thing to do to someone who has the right of way, over you in your car.

@sleepyscientist do you really think pedestrians are safer if they travel some way down the minor road before crossing it? why should they make a detour, at the same time reducing their visibility, and their own ability to see traffic approaching the junction? This is contrary to all road safety advice, which is about maximising visibility and sight lines! (and expecting drivers to look where they're going and stop rather than mowing down more vulnerable road users/ crashing into other vehicles whether moving or stopped)

You realise that the highway code isn't open for interpretation right? If a pedestrian steps into the road at a junction or zebra crossing, you have to stop for them. What they should or shouldn't have done is irrelevant to what you legally have to do. If you cannot safely do what the law stipulates, the problem is your driving.

I hate this new rule. I do generally stop for pedestrians waiting to cross side streets, but the driver behind me is never expecting it and sometimes honks at me. The pedestrian is often not expecting it either and sometimes dithers. There can be traffic coming in the other direction towards the pedestrian, and I don't want to be responsible for the pedestrian's safety in this situation. Oh, and when I'm the pedestrian no one ever stops for me.

So if everyone was on the same page it might be OK, but currently it's not.

Post long cane training I’ll still be searching out proper crossings to cross the road over trusting drivers

The hor is there to make others aware of your presence. Clealry you've not read the higway code

"Selective" there is a link in my post made at 13-00hrs today, read it and tell me what is "selective" about pedestrians have a responsibility to stop and look and only cross at zebra crossings and not to cut across them etc

I strongly recommend you take note of the link, read it because to me it appears you do not believe that a pedestrian too has to follow rules when crossing the road and clearly some don't

Please feel free to be "selective" and counter the facts about the rules I posted for pedestrians at 13-00hrs today

I agree with the other poster you quote - yes, it would be safer if pedestrians dont cross at some junctions as they are dangerous to the pedestrian or are you in denial about that as well?

(A junctio about te mns from where we live, we always go further up the road to cross as the left turn threr is not sharp and as drivers come off a 40mph road, some just shoot around it and there is a tree there and, lampost as well as one of those large green telecom boxes that can hide a clear view of a driver

All road users have a responsibility and as we know some drivers are awful but then again many pedestrians are either careless or ignorant of the rules and feel the rules oly apply to drivers.

If you are a pedestrian and are not aware of the rules to stop and look before crossing, take responsibility - this is what the highway code states = see my post at 13-00hrs today when I had to enlighten a FM that it was not just drivers that had a responsibility but pedestrians as well,

from Gov site - yes, really there are rules for pedestrians

Rule 18At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should

• always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing
• always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous.

You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing.

Rule 19Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

@DistingusedSocialCommentator I'm saying that pedestrians are the most vulnerable, as they are at greatest harm if hit by a car. So a pedestrian is more vulnerable than a car and so must be afforded the greatest protection. The onus is on the car driver to protect the pedestrian, so even if the pedestrian does cross the road without noticing that you are about to turn into it, the car must be driving in such a way that they won't harm the pedestrian. (Ie at sufficient speed to come to a stop, or already be at a stop because they noticed that a pedestrian was about to cross).
And also I don't really understand your initial example - are you saying that you leave it too late to indicate to the car behind you that you are going to turn by using your indicators and significantly slowing speed, or that you don't slow until the last minute and then quickly slow, indicate and turn into the road with little warning to the car behind you, or that you don't slow at all and just turn, so if you slowed and stopped the car behind you would have to break suddenly?
Surely the car behind you has seen you indicating in good time what your intention is, and unless they are a lunatic (as previously mentioned) has also slowed to prevent hitting you?
I live off a roundabout so every single day I exit the roundabout, and turn almost immediately into my house (often stopping completely as I await traffic to pass) and not once has anyone ever hit me or not slowed in time. Once a lunatic attempted to overtake me (I can't see any reason why they did this reckless act as I was about to turn because it was very clear what I was doing) but luckily I was observant enough to immediately brake and not hit them, despite their irresponsible behaviour.

Wrong, very wrong "the onus is on the driver," no it is not - read the rules for pedestrians both have a responsibility - do read the highway code, please FGS!

The onus is on both parties that is a fact but accidnets do happen and thats where the police becomes involed

Are you trying to tell me that every accident where a vehicle knocks over a pedestrian is the driver's fault? I bet you it is not!

@DistingusedSocialCommentator as I said, those who can do the greatest harm (car) have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat posed to others (pedestrians). I just don't understand what your argument is? Why don't other cars see you indicating and slowing down as you approach junctions? Given it seems to happen so constantly to you, have you actually checked that your indicators or brake lights work?

What's changed and why?
The revised Highway Code came into effect from 29 January 2022, following calls to protect vulnerable road users. There are a significant number of changes but, from a driver's perspective, some of the biggest are:
creation of a new ‘hierarchy of road users’ that ensures those who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others
clarify existing rules on pedestrian priority on pavements and when crossing the road
provide guidance on safe passing distances and ensuring cyclists and horse riders have priority when travelling straight ahead at junctions

I don't disagree with the change, but as both a driver and a pedestrian I'm not confident everyone is aware of it (I guess people without cars also don't keep an eye on highway code changes). Rather than very specific rule changes I think we should replace with an overall 'driver fault' presumption (like the Netherlands) which would simplify for everyone and mean drivers are expected to have shown an abundance of caution.

I get beeped constantly for letting pedestrians cross, and I'm not brave enough to step out in front of a turning car.

It's not wrong in the slightest. Your obligation to follow to the rules and drive safely is not conditional on what anyone else is doing.

Excellent post like a few others.

If everyone took responsibility for their part of the highway rules including pedestrians, drivers and push-bike riders, we'd have less accidents. Better enforcement is required. Importantly this thread just shows the igroanace of some about who and what rules apply to whom.

As per my OP. I'm against the new rules especially giving way to a pedestrain that has not yet started to cross but waiting as some do wait but many just blindly step into the road. Most drivers like me will give way and did before the new rules but the real and present dangers of giving way turning left from a main road into a side road and several good drivers on this thread have agreed with me as has many via voting this particular new rule is dangerous for the pedestrians.

To increase pedestrian safety I recommend fencing both sides at the start and finish of zebra crossings in order to stop the ill-informed careless lot that start to cross before the offical crossing and often cause the driver to brake harder than they otherwise would. I also strongly recommended the gov had public information adverts reminding pedestrians as per rules when trying to cross a road/cross as per rules posted at 13-00hrs by me on this thread today

I have family that live in a town in Essex that is very close to London. I was visiting there recently, and I was quite taken aback by how absolutely none of the drivers in this area seemed to be aware of this particular highway code update (which is almost 2 years old now).

I had loads of aggressive drivers honking me every time I dared to walk across a side road that broke up the pavement when they were wanting to join the side road from the main road.

I actually lost my rag and told a particularly aggressive female driver to "read the bloody highway code".

I drive, and have been aware of this rule since it came in. I always follow it, and find that 99% of drivers where I live (in a different part of the South of England) follow it.

how would you feel:
A child was super tired after school day, a child was hungry and wanted to be at warm home as quickly as possible. They've just started to go home on their own this week, things are a bit new. They were a bit distracted and did not looked in both directions*. You just killed 13 years old. Is it really a cost you are happy to take to show these stupid pedestrians?

To drive a car you must be sober and healthy. To be a pedestrian you only have to be born. And the law recognises that, thus driving licence is compulsory and awarded after testing. Other conditions must be met.

As I said - Half of Europe has more 'radical' laws than Britain.
People mentioned Holland, but I think the most interesting case is Scandinavia.

Sweden: Red light is an information that cars may be heading which only means you need to be more carful when crossing. you can cross whenever you like - obviously motorways are different beast altogether (as there are also measures for safety of wildlife and foot access is impossible this is not worth of a discussion) but if you are crossing not on the zebra you have to be sure it won't cause an accident. However, the whole system, school education and testing, puts onus on drivers and as a result in the cities people drive slowly and are aware of hotspots. Slowing down, even if you can't see people, before crossing is a habit.
Something you just do without thinking.
Norway: pedestrians are saints. They can cross whenever they want and do not need to observe the traffic - they are not licensed, so are absolve.
It is responsibility of the licensed (passed the test!) driver to not kill any one.
And it is one of the safest countries in Europe.

Most members of EU have the same approach, the law says that a pedestrian has a priority when indicates they want to cross - so facing the road can be interpreted as such intent and not slowing down before zebra is strictly punished. It does not matter if it is a junction on a leafy suburb.
Only Romania is still in the era 'do not kill, if a pedestrian is already on the road you need to slow down'.

I'm beginning to think that regulations should be introduced to make the volume of the horn inside the car as loud as outside. Then people would only use it in an actual emergency, rather than to demonstrate impatience.

To increase pedestrian safety I recommend fencing both sides at the start and finish of zebra crossings in order to stop the ill-informed careless lot that start to cross before the offical crossing and often cause the driver to brake harder than they otherwise would. I also strongly recommended the gov had public information adverts reminding pedestrians as per rules when trying to cross a road/cross as per rules posted at 13-00hrs by me on this thread today

When the railways were built they were required to be fully enclosed to protect the public from the danger. Perhaps we should extend that to roads, if the car driver wishes to cross a zebra crossing they need to get out and open the User Worked Gates, stopping after crossing to reclose them.

If a car stops for a pedestrian, and the car behind hits it, the first car can quite easily get pushed forward, which is to say into the pedestrian.

I know this from having had to run out of the way when a car ran into the back of the one that had stopped for me. It was a designated crossing area too, but one where cars were often speeding. eventually they added a blinking overhead light for people crossing.

It's all very well to say that the second car ought not to have been speeding, but had I been a little older with slower reflexes, I would have been hurt whether he was in the wrong or not.

Some places are just not very safe to cross.

But this thread is about crossing the entrances of side roads so a car which has been hit wouldn't have started turning into the path of the pedestrian yet.

I agree that some places are currently not safe to cross. This is why I support a 20mph limit in built-up areas and traffic calming measures to force people to slow down. Raising crossings to pavement height is a good idea because traffic is forced to slow for the ramp, and wheelchair users don't have to deal with a slope.

More ramps, LTNs and 20mph limits all good to slow everyone down and ensure drivers think. More zebras.

Proper public information campaign when there is a rule change. I'd be supportive of having to redo the theory element of the test every 10 years or so too.