Sister excluded at end of life care

[Mrsm010918]

Now I will preface this by explaining that my sister has quite severe learning difficulties in that her mental age has never progressed past that of around a 12 year old. She does however, have capacity to live alone and maintain relationships.

My mum has just been hospitalised and 2 masses have been discovered in her brain. The doctor is looking at it being secondary cancer so not a long life expectancy at this point.

The problem is nobody is bothering to keep my sister updated. Her and my mum haven't got a great relationship, it's superficial at best, but DSis does keep in touch and tries to visit etc. My mum is never welcoming with her and its all rooted in the fact that DSis is in contact with her dad. He's done some pretty awful things to her over the years, as well as to the family as a whole but ultimately she contacted him and she won't be told anything bad about him. This has been ongoing for at least 15 years now.

Mum has laid in hospital saying she wants nothing to do with DSis on her deathbed basically because she doesn't want any info getting back to her ex husband. DSis is ringing round everyone trying to find out what's going on, what the treatment will be etc and she sounds genuinely concerned rather than on a phishing expedition.

AIBU to find it incredibly harsh that everyone is blocking her out in this?

Even though it may mean she doesn't get to say goodbye?

My eldest brother agrees with me but the others are against her knowing anything

@oatmilksaga

It's her child, with learning disabilities?

And it's her choice not to have her there.

It's not like they're inviting the ex. When she's dead he'll find out anyway.

It won't matter to her then, but it matters now.

Who cares?

She does. The dying lady cares.

It's horrible that you have been put in this position and I think your mother is being extremely selfish and shortsighted with little consideration for you, your sister, and your older brother.

Can you just speak in general terms "she's still in hospital and very sick but no change since last time we talked etc"

I don't doubt she was hurt by my Dsis decision to maintain contact, her ex is not a nice man. She is aware he wouldn't be in a fit state to be turning up though so I don't think it's anything to do with that.

Even if I lie to my Dsis she will know that I have and be upset. She's quite intuitive in that way, and she would deduce that there's no way I wouldn't have known all the ins and outs. I have always been incredibly close with our parents even though I live at the other end of the country, not much goes on in each others lives that we don't know about.

Anyone git any tips for gently telling her to keep away?

There is no ‘seeing sense’ in these situations a lot of the time. I would never had asked my dad to ‘see sense’ when he didn’t want my sister to know he was dying. He was, you know, terrified of death, in a lot of pain and trying to comprehend a diagnosis that left him 2 weeks to live.

I am not going to go into the specific scenario why she wasn’t to be told but it was pretty similar to what the OP describes - to do with a very abusive ex from someone in our family. She chose to feedback information to him. My mother was in contact with my sister when she died and my sister also wasn’t told of my mothers death until after the event either - she made choices in life that were hers to make and she lived with the consequences of these choices. None of the rest of our family tell her anything to protect the victim of the person she chooses to stay in touch with even after he received quite a lengthy prison service for his actions. My dad wasn’t bitter he was protecting others.

The sister of the OP is undiagnosed, her mother has every right not to have her personal medical information passed on and I completely understand her reasoning for not wanting her other daughter to know she’s dying. It’s called respecting someone’s wishes.

Actually, I think you're being hugely unreasonable.

Your mum doesn't want your sister to know her private medical details. You're leaking that information to your sister against your mum's wishes by giving her basic updates every few days! Have you told your mum what you've been saying?

The rest of the family are only following what your mum wants. Cancer is awful and it robs you of your choices and your dignity. Whether or not you agree with your mum's decision, you have to support her in it. She doesn't want your sister to be updated and informed. Yes, you're in a terrible position, but that doesn't give you a free pass to do what you think is best.

Your mum sounds like she's scared and angry, and she doesn't want her ex to know how vulnerable she is right now. Respect that. The wishes of a dying woman come above a relative who isn't close to her and is likely to go blabbing about her to someone who makes her feel unsafe.

Your mum has chosen to cut ties with her ex. That is understandable. He treated her badly.

Your sister has chosen to have a relationship with her father. That is understandable. She is a child who just wants her dad.

Unfortunately, your mum's need to protect herself and your sister's need to have a relationship with her dad are just not compatible. Both women have made their choices. You might not agree with either or both of them, but it's their lives, and they both have the right to have relationships - or not have relationships - with whoever they want to. You can't wish really hard and then have them both have a really close relationship. Your mum dying isn't going to make them change who they are.

You're taking this out on the wrong person. If your sister's father hadn't been so awful to your mum, they'd be on speaking terms now, and he wouldn't have driven a wedge between your mum and your sister.

Respect your mum's wishes and stop leaking information to your sister. You might think your sister should get the chance to say goodbye. That's not your decision. It's your mum's. And you if you keep leaking her details, she might not want to say goodbye to you either. I sense you would find that upsetting, so change your approach and be there for your mum in the way she has asked.

I'm sorry your mother is dying. Truly. I've just been through it and losing a parent to cancer feels like having a limb cut off. The situation is shitty but there are things about it that you just have to accept and roll with. You have to accept your mum and your sister aren't close and that is unlikely to ever change.

First and foremost I’m really sorry you’re going through this. It’s hard enough to deal with a loved one in this situation but worse as it usually brings all the family situations to a head.

Now for advice… I think you continue to hold the line with the information you give to DS and not giving out the hospital information. If your sister-in-law presses the issue then be upfront in as nice but factual way. I’m sure this has come up in the past between your mum and sister so refer back those instances.

At the end of the day while your sister has LDs she’s still responsible for her choices, it may have been unfair of your mum to make that choice, but you can’t fix that. It will probably cause hurt and resentment, but you also can’t fix that.

Again, I’m so sorry. I’ve been in a similar situation and it sucks and is unfair to you.

Imagine lying on your deathbed and holding onto such bitterness, all because your child with a limited mental capacity might pass on information to your ex-husband. Clearly your mum’s hatred for her ex is more important to her than allowing her child to be part of something that is traumatic enough on its own. Why is she so consumed by the idea that her ex is going to find out that she’s ill… surely the thought of dying should be more consuming that what an ex thinks at this time…how petty…and to punish her child in this way is just pathetic…sorry not sorry

You must follow your mother's wishes

Yes, you must respect your mother’s wishes. But you also need to tell your sister. If she lives alone and has relationships she certainly got capacity to understand. Tell her that your mother is very ill, but that she doesn’t want to see her. And it’s all very sad you must respect that. All the best and such a difficult situation. I’m sure the distance makes it far worse.

Your mother is facing a horrible death. She doesn't want to be stressed out by all the private, potentially embarrassing details being passed on to a nasty ex who has "done bad things".

Maybe she thinks her own illness and DEATH could be about her? It sounds like her and your sister are already borderline estranged, and serious illness doesn't necessarily make people want to "make amends" - sometimes in fact, it makes them angry over what they've been putting up with and want to cut ties!

Assuming that your mother still has mental capacity, it's up to her who gets told what about her condition and prognosis.

This

While this is tragic for your sister - how can you really going against your mother's dying wishes? Just tell your sister the truth - your mum has asked you not to update her because she is concerned she will tell her dad?

@troublemeltslikelemondrops absolutely agree.

Who is supporting dsis? What will happen once dm dies if there is emotional fall out? Is she independent or does she require a support worker to help her navigate her practicalities and emotions? Is there any chance dm will relent and allow her to visit even if not to be kept fully informed of her condition. It does not sound likely her df will wade in.

Op, why aren’t you the one taking on responsibility for keeping your sister informed?
You can be selective about what you tell her, given her mental capacity.

Agree with this. And focus should be on your mum. All this drama with your sister is taking the focus away from helping your mum through this very difficult time.

And imagine lying on your deathbed deliberately rejecting your LD daughter because she is in touch with her father. I know he has been abusive but he’s in no position to turn up now. Imagine not caring how your daughter might feel after you had died. Imagining this from either angle doesn’t really help OP decide how to handle the situation though. Can you reason with your Mum at all? If she won’t budge then you have to go with her wishes.

could you be honest with her? Tell her Mum is reserved about seeing her due to concerns that she will share information with her dad who was abusive to mum.

What an awful thing to say. “Reason with your mum?” Good God the woman is dying - what’s to reason with? I have been in a situation the OP is in and there’s no way I would have tried to change my fathers decisions or choices. This has clearly happened very quickly as the OP says her mum has recently been hospitalised with secondary cancer My mum has just been hospitalised and 2 masses have been discovered in her brain. The doctor is looking at it being secondary cancer so not a long life expectancy at this point. Have you ANY idea of how that feels to the person dying? They’re terrified, they’re trying to process their diagnosis and sometimes they’re in pain. As I said in a previous post the daughter in question has NO diagnosis. In your world it’s perfectly ok to disrespect the wishes of a dying person? Good grief let the woman die in peace and deal with the fallout later. The sister in question appears to live an independent life from what the OP has written on here, she has made the decision to stay in touch with her father and her mum has the absolute right to keep her at arms length - at the end of the day, we don’t know how bad the abuse was that woman suffered.

Parents are people too and sometimes can’t move past some things in life. I see so many posts on here of children going NC with their parents, parents have that right too - to keep their children at arms length, which is what the OP’s parent chose to do. There is no right or wrong in this situation, things have happened, choices have been made and people need to live with those choices. It’s unfortunate the OP is having to deal with the fallout of it all while trying to juggle their own family life and facing the death of their mum.

I really don’t think a parent has taken the decision easily not to want to see a child before they pass.

He's done some pretty awful things to her over the years, as well as to the family as a whole but ultimately she contacted him and she won't be told anything bad about him. This has been ongoing for at least 15 years now.

This man (who the daughter chooses to stay in touch with) has been awful to the mum as well as the wider family according to the OP.

OP let your mum pass without worry and if this person is such a wonderful dad he’ll be there for your sister to support her.

This is all very sad

@Anonymouseposter

But the DD isn't the one dying. There is a 15 year history there that none of us know anything about.

What I do know is that the very most basic thing you can do for someone trying to process facing their death is respect them.

Anyone git any tips for gently telling her to keep away?

There isn’t a gentle way to do it. And if you insist on going along with this cruelty then you have to own it.

Your mum and dad have been married for 32 years so this saga has been going on longer than that . And it’s obvious that in your mums mind her family doesn’t actually include your half sister. Her ‘real’ family is the family she had when she married for the second time. I suspect that for all of you your half sister is an unfortunate reminder of the past and she never really was part of the new set up in any proper sense.

The half sister isn’t causing any drama. That’s all on her mum.

The poor woman doesn't want the stress of wondering if her daughter will betray her again. Naivety or not, your sister can't be trusted. You have to stand by your mum with this. She only gets one chance to die peacefully.