To agree with Esther Ghey?

[ProfessorPeppy]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/12/i-want-to-make-things-better-esther-ghey-on-her-hopes-for-online-reform

I’m a teacher in a secondary school. I believe that the massive uptick in social problems we are experiencing in schools results from unfettered smartphone use and access to social media. School refusal, eating disorders, gender identity issues, self harm, anxiety, depression. ASD/ADHD seems to be a common underlying starting point for such vulnerabilities, but neurotypical children are also adversely affected. So many of the children I teach say things like, ‘everybody is looking at me in class, it makes me anxious’ - surely this results from a life spent on social media? Cameras on phones mean that anybody can be recorded/broadcast themselves at the click of a button, perhaps without their permission.

DS1 is 11 and about to start secondary school. He doesn’t have a phone…yet. He has an ASD/ADHD dual diagnosis and is medicated. I can clearly see that he might be vulnerable to the adverse effects of smartphone access, so I’m thinking v carefully about my next steps.

YABU: these problems have always existed for young people, and this has nothing to do with smartphones/social media.

YANBU: smartphones/social media have amplified these problems, especially for ND young people.

I don't agree with her. I'd like more accountability for failing parents. Obviously we need better funded support services for tw/eens. All three had their issues. The killers have been badly neglected by their parents, who should face charges. We need to go back to early intervention. You, in your job get the children often too late. But its in senior school were the excuses about attendance, inappropriate behaviour etc etc are made to stop, bit it's too late and the waiting list for help, if there is help, is to long to be of use. In my GC school I know five boys who don't stand a chance and it's being allowed to happen. One in particular is also sexually inappropriate and violent. No one cares.

Just read the article. I despair. The last thing children need is being taught “mindfulness”. They need help to remove their focus from their navels, not help to increase it. It was partly this trend to gaze inward, to become obsessed with self, to be constantly monitoring how they FEEL at any given moment that can lead to children starting with the gender nonsense.

I agree Fancy. Also I think that the internet has broken the world pretty much and am glad I grew up in a time without it.

We do a bit of mindfulness with the children at school. I think it can be helpful to have a calm part of the day where you zone out. Many children (esp ND children) have alexithymia (inability to identify their own feelings) which is why they end up melting down/burning out.

The gender identity side of things has calmed down recently, at least in my school. It’s far less of a thing with teenagers these days. It tends to be part of an autism/ADHD presentation more generally, and is more popular with young people in their 20s than teenagers.

Totally this. The internet is ruining people - and it's only going to get worse with AI.

Just read the article. I despair. The last thing children need is being taught “mindfulness”. They need help to remove their focus from their navels, not help to increase it. It was partly this trend to gaze inward, to become obsessed with self, to be constantly monitoring how they FEEL at any given moment that can lead to children starting with the gender nonsense.

Secondary sschool teacher here and I totally agree. And mobile phones are part of the gaze inward, or at least another obstacle to looking outwards (into the real, physical world rather than the virtual one).

I do agree that excessive smartphone use and unsupervised access to SM amplify these issues, but I don't entirely agree with: So many of the children I teach say things like, ‘everybody is looking at me in class, it makes me anxious’ - surely this results from a life spent on social media? I have an autistic DD in Year 6 who says that sort of thing. She doesn't have a smartphone and she has very limited access to SM (she sometimes looks on my phone at the messages I've sent to my older children on our family WhatsApp group...she doesn't have the PIN to my phone so I can control how often she uses it). I think in her case, her social anxiety results from her autism rather than spending too much time on social media.

But yes, in general I think Esther Ghey is correct and we a rethink about teens access to smartphones and SM.

I agree. Sadly no politician seems able to act. Not a Cameron fan but he really tried to limit porn access to children years ago (father himself) but got nowhere.

Agree about mindfulness - this generation need less navel gazing not more.

I'd respectfully suggest you don't quite understand the concept of mindfulness then.

The gender identity side of things has calmed down recently, at least in my school. It’s far less of a thing with teenagers these days. It tends to be part of an autism/ADHD presentation more generally, and is more popular with young people in their 20s than teenagers

I wish that this was correct where I teach OP but it's rife. And supported by plenty of young, desperate to be cool, staff.

The NHS trialled a mindfulness in schools programme a couple of years ago. I think it was the NHS, anyway.

It was dropped. The kids hated it and found it boring.

I work with teenagers in Alternative Provision. Some of the young people we work with actually have ‘do not take away X’s phone as this triggers anxiety’ or ‘allow X to check their phone every ten minutes’ in their EHCP.

Funnily enough, after a few weeks with us, we often find the phone addiction fading away - at least when they’re on site. One-to-one attention, care, understanding, activities like playing a simple board game, or just having a cup of tea and a chat or taking one of the school dogs for a walk fulfils the need for connection that the phone is an easy route to.

Mainstream schools need to get out from under the yoke of Ofsted and league tables, and remember they’re teaching young individuals.

Parents need to put their own phones down and engage with their children.

Companies need to stop enslaving their workers so that they can be around more for their families while they’re at home.

Social media companies need to take some responsibility, and governments need to step up and regulate what young people have access to online.

Technology was meant to set us free, but it’s done the direct opposite.

I agree.

@Dogfisher The staff at my school are all quite longstanding (and old). We’ve seen a lot of social change. We understand that teenagers love a fad, but we also understand the importance of safeguarding. I don’t know what the next manifestation of ‘feeling different’ is going to be.

I agree with you but I cannot imagine a way this can be enforced when even babies are being given tablets to keep themselves entertained. How can you remove the electronic devices when they have spent more time with them than with their parents or friends?

At the same time, social communication has changed, most interactions are online so if a child does not have any access to social media, they will be missing a life skill as they won’t learn how to respond to the challenges or integrate in a society that relies on social media to socialise. All the children I know who have not been allowed access to the internet or social media are lonely, ostracised and have mental health problems as they do not “speak the language” of their peers, it is pretty much like not teaching them to read to protect them from the world out there.

This is such a useful post, thank you, I think I disagree but I literally completely also understand where you are coming from.

I guess what you're saying is that a huge part of the problem is the over emphasis on internal subjective 'feelings' as the most important experience/ truth? And yes I totally agree that this has led to all sorts of gender woo issues and is part of a wider post modern emphasis on 'my truth' rather than The Truth. Which is so damaging!

However - good mindfulness is the opposite. Yes it's about internal subjective experience BUT it's about putting enough space around that experience, by paying attention to that experience and identifying it as subjective and fleeting and internal. And so in many ways I think mindfulness does the opposite to the problem you identify.

I see it an antidote to some of our navel gazing issues rather than part of the problem. Although I admit it does literally look rather like sitting on your arse focussing on yourself which is very much part of the problem!

I am so glad to hear this ProfessorPeppy

When I taught in an indie we had those experienced sensible staff but I am in state now and the younger teachers outnumber experienced staff by a mile and it really shows.

@Dogfisher I think young people just don’t have the long term perspective of us oldies, and it really shows in teaching. Teachers aren’t supposed to present information in anything other than an impartial way, so cheerleading vulnerable children’s identities really isn’t okay.

How can you remove the electronic devices when they have spent more time with them than with their parents or friends?
There's going to need to be one generation that draws a line and it's likely to be a couple down from where we are now.

Just look on Mumsnet on threads about tablet use in public places and you'll see dozens of parents claiming the only options in a public place are:

• have magic perfect children and magic perfect parents who are perfectly behaved at all times aka unicorn families
• give children tablets and phones from a young age (and if people object to the volume being on they need to unclench)
• children will run around, shout, scream and be a nuisance to everyone else

Same for having a shower / doing housework. How often do we see posts where the options are:

• never shower and live in filth, never do any housework
• stick a baby or preschool child in front of a screen so you can get stuff done

Then there's similar with threads about primary school aged children who cannot entertain themselves. The same sort of thing happens, people argue that the children who can play for independently for short, age appropriate amount of time have popped out the womb that way and for everyone else there's no choice but to let their 7/8/9 year old sit on devices for hours because they moan and complain if they don't get their iPad on demand.

There's a worrying number of people who can't see that people parented their children without devices at every point.

If smartphones didn't exist, and I appeared on Dragons Den with my "revolutionary" new invention, and I explained all about Apps and the idea of Social Media; and explained how everyone would have a Hi-Def camera in their pocket and that they could go around filming anyone and anything and put those images up on the Internet or livestream, very serious questions would be asked by the Dragons.

They would ask about child safety and content access. They would want to know about privacy and how it could lead to people being harrassed and bullied. They would definitely want to discuss
Data protection issues, and licencing and age restrictions, Peter Jones would quip:

"I could make one phone call to my guy's in China and by tomorrow I could have a piece of software that would get me inside that thing, it's not secure, it will cause huge safety issues for children, sorry I'm not investing. I'm out"

We have been "boiled like frogs" into accepting the most corrosive and damaging piece of technology into our everyday lives.

'everybody is looking at me in class, it makes me anxious'

Just wanted to add that this is a common symptom of ND, many of us feel this way even when alone.

I agree with her to a degree. Social media is terrible for everyone. Not just children and too much time on phones and devices is also bad.
My kids primary school has a full time mindfulness and mental well-being teacher. I think it’s great. Everyone could do with some help to manage their own mental health and well-being. Teaching children at an early age is great. Nearly everyone has depression or anxiety these days. Clearly something needs to be done

My dc is anxious, hates being looked at or any attention drawn to her in class, struggles to cope with school. She is NT and was fine in primary school. This has started a year or so into secondary. She has a phone, which she spends too much time on (like all of us).
I think maybe part of it is there's no escape from technology - a phone or iPad is essential, all the homework and learning resources are on it, it's how they get news, talk to friends and it's developed more quickly than our minds and our laws can keep up.
I remember thinking it was a wonderful thing that we could just find out anything we wanted to know about with this one device - but it's killed patience and freedom. We are always available, trackable, expected to respond instantly. There's no respite from it!

My DD's school keeps trying to ban phones but it never sticks.

I don't think the phone alone has caused her problems - I think it's largely the school environment and how utterly unsuited it is for certain kids - it treats everyone one way, and forgets that kids don't all respond well to the same approach. But I certainly think the internet hasn't helped. They (and us) are all presenting lives that appear perfect on SM, constantly comparing ourselves to others - the pressure is immense on developing brains.

This so much.

You absolutely don’t know that the killers were neglected. I think Esther is in a better place to comment and I totally agree with her and the OP.

I have 2 children who have the same profile as Brianna. Both have ASC and ADHD and both have been hugely impacted by smartphones with quite catastrophic results. 1 has anorexia. Both have been very unwell and been under services as children and adults. They have never been neglected and our parenting has been praised on more than one occasion. Nearly all the highly trained professionals we have met up to consultant level have cited phones as having an impact. I too have ASC and ADHD and also had an eating disorder as a teen. I am in my 50s. I didn’t get anywhere near as ill and moved on. Although I had difficulties which impacted my life adversely in a massive way I have managed them better and spent a lot of time working on myself. I have spent a lot of time looking at my teen years and theirs. I struggle with phones now and have to be hugely disciplined in my management of them. I look back to my teenage years when there were no phones and can see how better my brain worked and how I could turn to other things to manage difficulties. Phones are addictive( ND people can have addictive personalities), they impact dopamine levels which is huge for adhd suffers . They can leave your self esteem on the floor. When you are already hugely different and struggle with anxiety, introspective mood and attention it must be hugely debilitating having them form such a big part of your life when you’re desperately trying to fit in.

My children just don’t believe me when I tell them that a life without phones would be so much better for them. They have never experienced such a life or true mindfulness so don’t have anything for reference like I have. Mindfulness is something CAMHs and adult services use a lot as part of better coping strategies. It does work. It may not have worked in schools as it is a whole lot more than colouring sheets and what busy school has the time to provide mindful education properly?Look what they’re fighting agains.Classrooms and homes full of tech and inattentive brains

Is there any way to support Esther as I really think she needs to be listened to.

I think parents need to take responsibility and not let their kids have phones (easy for me to say though, my oldest is three!) I'm not convinced that there is a purely legal solution though the regulatory environment probably could be improved.

I'd like to see a policy that schools can't ask for the use of phones. So often I see people saying on here, "When should I get my child a phone?" and a load of people will say that they have to have one by secondary school because the schools use apps etc. That adds to the pressure on parents, even if the schools have an alternative available.