To ask why women are expected to do everything?

[HolyGuacamole28]

I read a depressing article in the Economist today ‘How Motherhood affects careers’ and it stated how more and more women are not progressing as they should after having children. And SAHP is on the rise as more people opt out of a system doomed to failure. I just don’t understand how mothers are physically supposed to work full time in a career/senior role (I do), manage a household (I have a 4 year old, 2 year old and a husband, also FT) that includes washing, cleaning, cooking etc and do activities with the kids, keep fit and see friends. Is this what society expects? Who is supposed to do the household role if both adults work full time? And why do we need two incomes just to survive? (COL is so painful re mortgages, childcare, energy, food). Rant over, just can’t see how society has evolved, it’s just put more on our shoulders. I’m personally at breaking point.

Because the bar is set far too low for men.

I am a single parent to two primary age DC, one with additional needs.

EXDP pays CMS only, and refuses to contribute any further. He sees DC EOW and a bit during the holidays, and court won't make him do any more.

I work full-time with an hours commute in an additional rate role. I have no choice as I wouldn't be able to afford my house, DC's costs otherwise.

DC gets school bus, which on the face of sounds great, however due to age and need, someone needs to be at drop-off and collection at 8am and 3.30pm respectively. Unless I have help, it would be impossible to accommodate these times, and also ferry round DC with 9am and 3.15pm drop off and pick up.

I have a Nanny and supportive family who help out. Childcare costs me £4k per month, I realise this is not affordable for most, however it's the only way I can work and keep a roof over our heads.

Is it an obsession or is it just pointing out the sexist double standards? Mothers are often judged for working full time yet no one tells fathers who have careers that they should give it up or they aren't prioritising their children.

It also doesn't have to be the way you describe working full time as a mother either, especially if you have a husband who isn't a selfish arsehole and doesn't expect you to do everything just because you have a vagina.

I'm not stressed
I don't do it all
DH and I work flexi hours including WFH so that we can both work full time and prioritise our son because he is OUR son, not just mine

I wouldn't accept anything less.

Is this the current edition? I’ll check a newsagents.
we are both ft wiht 3 dc, one in childcare and 2 in school. It’s an endless juggle.

Derailing slightly to say that in my workplace it's also the women that run the show, take initiative, problem solve, take responsibility....the men have a lot of confidence, but are generally lazy and do the bare minimum.

yes, I've found this to be the case too. do the bare minimum, pawn work off on someone else, toady up to the boss for a promotion, take credit when they did very little, talk a lot but do very little.

Let's not forget the pretending to work late to get out of any family or household responsibilites.

People today don't want to accept the living standards of the past, that's why you need two salaries. Decades ago we didn't have foreign holidays, just a week in a caravan in Wales. Clothes/toys/furniture were hand-me-downs. You lived without until you'd saved up for things. Added to that though, we have chronically under-built the amount of new housing we need, so that has forced prices up. I wish we could have a huge, new, quality national social housing program.

Thanks for all the comments. I guess my issue reflects a societal issue. My DH grew up in a two parent, single income house (as did I) Wasn’t huge money either but was enough. His mother never worked and ran the house and children. DH was never expected to do anything and as an adult he just doesn’t really care enough re household stuff. But I care. Women are still the default carers and chore doers, despite now having to work as well. Society judges women much more harshly - provide an income but don’t let someone else raise your child. It’s sad as no win. I’m glad some have a 50/50 split but I can’t help feeling it’s not the norm. I’d love a cleaner and help but COL increases has made money quite tight.

I mean, I know both of these stories are funny and in both cases the woman triumphed. But just thinking about the man's assumptions... I'm at a point in my life where I find most of them repugnant.

Cynical old bat that I am, I'm fairly convinced we're still being collectively punished for that damn apple.. ..

Yes. It’s never occurred to me it’s my job to ‘manage the household’. DH does all cooking and food shopping, and some laundry. I used to do more school runs before DS started getting himself to school, and I do the garden. Our cleaner cleans. We both have demanding FT jobs. We both see friends and exercise. We chose to only have one child partly for manageability.

That is such a lovely honest post to read, and I relate to it so much. Similar story here!

just can’t see how society has evolved, it’s just put more on our shoulders

I'm NOT saying I want us to go back to the 50s but I often think about how my grandparents were able to afford a spacious house and four children on one pretty ordinary salary. My granny didn't need to work, she was able to look after her kids, cook good food to keep the family alive and healthy, take care of a gorgeous garden and maintain relationships with her wide circle of family and friends.

Many women would love to be able to have that choice. Are women 'free' now? Or is it an illusion?

Honestly, I think I'd prefer to spend my days like she did, rather than sitting at a screen all day. I don't have kids, because we simply can't afford them. I don't feel I have any freedom in my 'choice' to work.

Not a social historian (although I'd like to be!) Not anti-capitalist per se, either. But what has the capitalist push towards women in the workplace really done for us? Ok, so we can buy loads more stuff that we don't need. But what about the things that really matter in life? To be able to have a workable family life, less stress, take care of our connections with family and community?

People want to think that feminism has been an unalloyed good, but what about the unintended consequences?

Outsourcing household tasks is the best way imo such as cleaning, ironing,.gardening

Look, unfortunately you chose to marry a sexist man. There are a lot of sexist men out there. Then again, there are quite a lot of women who buy into the old fashioned stereotypes as well.

It's much easier when you share everything 50/50. However, you need to not be married to a twat to make that work.

Many many many people work full time and run a household. I always have I don’t find it hard. It was easier when the kids were at nursery than in primary school ( they are secondary school now and back to easier!) but the housework etc is always done we have clean clothes and hot dinners- to me, it’s just life!

My husband is much more equal re jobs than my ex was, and I was a single parent for 5 years inbetween so I did everything then obviously. You have to be organised but I will never buy into the ‘it’s so hard, my house is a tip because I have no time’ nonsense because it’s just not true.

( I do not have a cleaner or a nanny or a housekeeper)

It’s perfectly possibly if you have an equal partnership and are organised. We pay for childcare. We plan meals and who will cook them, but keep it really simple in the week. Online food shop. One person cleans at the weekend whilst other takes kids out. It sounds like you have a DH problem that you are turning into assumptions about everyone, which is unfair.

I would add... I'm irritated by the premise of your question. Women are only expected to do everything by sexist men who don't want to step up and do their fair share. You don't have to just accept this.

Judged by whom? I have never felt under any pressure to "do it all" domestically. Or even to do any of it. I am starting to think that being naturally slatternly may have been a superpower as no man I met in my 20s could possibly have had the impression that I would keep house for them. Most of them would have been in fits of laughter at the idea of me cooking, cleaning and ironing. Since meeting DP (who is very houseproud and tidy) it's me who's had to up my game around the house to lift a finger at all every so often

I get that societal trends are what they are but on an individual level the only person who can push back on them is you. No one is going to fix them for you. And the answer to not wanting to do everything is: don't do everything, and don't pick a man who expects you to do everything.

That makes me think of the song by the singer Farideh “You are such a good dad” https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1C4MBOJr0P/?igsh=MWsxcWxlM3VxbDE1OA==

That and her song “Make a List” seem to me to reflect a lot of the relationships that get posted about on here. Sadly I think it can be a feature in my relationship at times too, I’ve tried just not doing it but literally he will not “see” it and it doesn’t get done. Then he does lots of other nice things for me and I don’t want to complain all the time.

We could afford for only one of to work, but we both want to work. We both do an equal share of housework and parenting. It’s never crossed either of our minds to do anything different. This is the same for my close friends too.

I don’t think of any jobs as women’s work or men’s work. All jobs are equal and that’s we plan to pass on to our children.

The increase in women working doesn't really work as an explanation for why house prices have increased.

Some women have always worked. During the first and Second World War all women were encouraged to work, and interwar and post war it was expected that many women would work until they were married (hence the marriage bars stoping married women working).

In the 59s and 60s The majority of women worked until they were married, and then the pattern was that they took time out of the workforce and then often returned once the youngest had left home.

Wealthy women employed nannies of the old fashioned variety and worked full time as lawyers or GPs etc.

The change over the last 50 years or so is the many more women now work through the time when they have young children. But women adding a few more years to the years they already worked really doesn't push house prices up that much.

Personally I feel as a child-free woman I have it sussed out most of all.

I can't be doing with the whole "actually, women being allowed to work was bad for us" take. Financial independence and the freedom to pursue what I want to do in life mean a great deal more to me than "raising the next generation".

No, it’s still your husband’s issue. My husband’s mum didn’t go back to work after having children. He was brought up to do housework, cooking etc.

Your husband isn’t an idiot, I’m sure he’s very capable at work. He can clearly see what needs doing around the house, knows clothes don’t wash themselves, and doesn’t believe food arrives magically on plates. He needs to step up and stop blaming ‘society’.

It’s a shame that most of these posts are still blaming women!!!

In the 50s and 60s underwear was changed once a week on bath night. Different old clothes worn at weekends which probably weren't washed that often. My DM cooked lunch for my DF, we got school dinners. So poached egg or similar for tea. And we got ourselves to and from school and I went to Brownies once a week, no other hobbies/sports.

We have gone bonkers with washing and cleaning stuff. eg MN jamas or towels washed after one use?? Insane.

And so many hobbies for DCs. After a day at school I liked being in the quiet of home.