To ask why women are expected to do everything?

[HolyGuacamole28]

I read a depressing article in the Economist today ‘How Motherhood affects careers’ and it stated how more and more women are not progressing as they should after having children. And SAHP is on the rise as more people opt out of a system doomed to failure. I just don’t understand how mothers are physically supposed to work full time in a career/senior role (I do), manage a household (I have a 4 year old, 2 year old and a husband, also FT) that includes washing, cleaning, cooking etc and do activities with the kids, keep fit and see friends. Is this what society expects? Who is supposed to do the household role if both adults work full time? And why do we need two incomes just to survive? (COL is so painful re mortgages, childcare, energy, food). Rant over, just can’t see how society has evolved, it’s just put more on our shoulders. I’m personally at breaking point.

I agree, but I think what she meant in this context was that she didn't want to be stuck as "default" parent with the mental load and having to organise everything, rather than not wanting to give up work entirely (being a SAHP wouldn't be an option for either of them in her situation so it would be more about how they split the burden of work/parenting). My friend is very scathing about how many women seem to essentially end up with two "jobs" after they have children and it's hard to disagree.

That is a really really crap excuse, sorry,

Of course he sees it, he just knows that you'll take the mental load/tell him what to do so waits for you to do it.

Weaponised incompetence.

Excusing it because he's a man is part of the problem.

@Aintnosupermum To put numbers on what you described:

A full-time carer doing 35 hours or more care per week gets the same from the govt as a jobseeker doing zero hours of care does. It works out at £2.19 per hour. For context, an apprentice gets almost three times that.

A paid carer aged over 21 on national minimum wage would get more than five times that.

The govt is very very happy to exploit the goodwill of kinship carers and destroy women's prospects for paid work in order to save money.

Jeez, thanks for judging my marriage based on a couple of comments about a hot topic that no one can agree one. your marriage perfect is it?

and yes one of my failings is that I do see it and I can't leave it until he decides to do it.

I really don't know why I bother with this site and offering an opinion. it's full of idiots who have a complete view of other people's lives and relationships based on a snippet of information. Stop judging other people, I thought MN was here to HELP people, not criticise and be rude. Thanks for curing me of a bad habit of trying to help and offer an opinion.

Account will be deleted shortly. I am so fed up of being jumped on and judged on here

Wow. I had to read that several times to see if I had misunderstood.

"that's more a failure of women not to live with things how they are and just do them rather than with men."

So if women are unhappy with an unequal division of labour, their unhappiness is down to their failure to live with things as they are and nothing to do with the men? And they should just do the work themselves?

If that's your honest belief, I have nothing to say in response. It speaks for itself.

I despair.

Oh, and I have a balance that works for me, thanks. We are equal partners and my DH is not a selfish, misogynistic twat!

It's AIBU. If you share an opinion, expect it to potentially be challenged.

I'm also not apologetic for judging sexism.

My marriage isn't perfect but come on now, are the standards really that low for men that expecting him to do his fair share around the house with no ''he's a man'' excuse is expecting perfection? It's basic stuff.

@SouthLondonMum22 yes unfortunately the standards (in general a lot of the time) are pretty low!

What the hell do you expect people to say if you post on a thread about men who don't pull their weight and talk about your husband not pulling his weight to the point where you, and I quote, 'lose your shit'?!
Of course they're going to point out his bullshit, stop being ridiculous.

We’re not judging you or your marriage we’re judging your DH, quite rightly.

What you bill as maleness is simply laziness and selfishness. Being a nice guy doesn’t mean he’s not a selfish one. That you can’t leave stuff as long as he can is not your failing, it’s his failing. He knows if he leaves it he won’t have to do it as you will do it for him.

Easy to say don't marry shit men but I'd argue that "What you bill as maleness is simply laziness and selfishness" -- is actually just maleness=laziness and selfishness.

The male is tuned to exert little energy on many matters. The female picks up slack.

I personally accept this bargain in our modern society because it means I can be educated and have a career that I love and excel at instead of being raised illiterate in a traditional mothering role stuck at home, like the countless generations before me.

That's all you get ladies, best we can figure out so far.

The male is tuned to exert little energy on many matters. The female picks up slack

Seriously?

It's depressing that some people have such low standards.

I'd better go and tell my DH that he's doing maleness all wrong.

Mine too!

Who thought that having a penis magically means that you need to be told how to adult.

It’s amazing how so many of them function at work.

That's just it. Men can be extremely functional, but not necessarily in the drudgery that makes up women's first or second job as caretaker. If you found a magical solution to this situation, I'd love to know what it is. Education and societal expectations only go so far. Obviously there is going to be a lot of variation and a wide distribution of men's usefulness or helpfulness on this stuff.

Mine must also be manning wrong as he does all the cooking and we share everything else 50/50. In fact I’m much lazier and grubbier than him. Am I actually a man? It’s very depressing that people buy into this shit.

Actually, I have found a magic solution to this situation.

The secret is to recognise that men are entirely capable of treating women like equals, and not to waste time on relationships with men who don't want to do that. Try it...it is extraordinarily effective.

The trouble is most men don’t act like lazy, scrubbers before children come along. They change once children arrive. Or they don’t put their children first.
They continue doing what they did before so on a weekend they expect to just aid off cycling/ watching football/ gaming/ pudding about with cars/ going to the pub. But what if a mother did this? Who would be parenting the children?
So something had to give. In every relationship I have ever seen it’s the mother who loses out. She sacrifices her time to put the children first.
The only long term relationships I know where there is true equality, don’t have children to each other.
Childfree women don’t have to tolerate this crap. There is no pull.
The man doesn’t pull his weight and he is binned. Simple.

Yes I do have a solution: raise your expectations and marry a man who is not a twat.

I do everything because i no it gets done right.
Plus i live alone so I have to but then again i only have me to care for so dont care.

While yes, women have too much piled on their plates, I can tell you instance after Instance of sahd who do lions share, or houses where it’s even. I worked (just left) in retail while dh worked mostly from home and he ran himself ragged with the kids. When he was in his workplace we both equally got into trouble with work for being off due to kids(😉) I honestly don’t think it’s as bad as it was

Is it really the case that men have complete 180 degree change in values and behaviour after children come along? Or is it simply that some women don't bother investigating this very much in the early stages of a relationship? Perhaps because they have incredibly low expectations and buy into the fallacy that all men are fundamentally lazy and selfish in any case.

I'm sorry that you don't know of any equal partnership where children are involved. I know lots, but then, most of my friends were the type to explore these issues in depth before getting in too deep.

@Whycantiwinmillionsandsquillions

They continue doing what they did before so on a weekend they expect to just aid off cycling/ watching football/ gaming/ pudding about with cars/ going to the pub.

Why would you expect them to change?? That's the problem really. We "expect" our partners to change or we think we can somehow change them, but most don't change. If they're accustomed to going off and doing their own thing a lot before you have children, why would you think they're going to give all that up? They're not. They may scale it back a bit but you're not going to get someone who's always gone pubbing on Friday nights to stop, nor someone who always goes to football on Saturdays.

I think we, as women, need to be more realistic, and not get into serious relationships with blokes who are constantly out socialising, partying, playing/watching sports, gaming, or out doing hobbies etc. We either need to accept that they're always going to have other commitments or just bin them and move on.

Many work places provided nursery facilities for their employees, especially in the mills and factories. When our Dad was seriously ill in the early 1950s, had to have a lung removed, I clearly remember Mum having to go back to work in a mill and we had a long walk, I'd be about 4 and my brother 2, and we went into the nursery across the road. I don't know how much, if anything, Mum had to pay for it.