To wonder about Secure Units and Teenagers?

[dottypotter]

Re Brianna Gheys killers being in a secure unit until they are 18 and James Bulgers killers etc.

What happens to them in there?
They have a school attached to them do they carry on their lessons.
How big are the classes?
What else do they do if anyone knows?
Do they get taken out?
Do they get anything bought for them on their birthdays?
What if they need a dentist or doctor?
Do they visit or do they get taken to them?
What sort of things do they do on weekends?
Do they have to see visitors?
Sorry for all the questions?
You very rarely hear about them but you hear plenty about adult prisons?
Is it really a big punishment?
I guess the focus is more on rehabilitation?

No. There are different types of secure unit.

One I visited had children in for their own safety - so young girls victims of CSE. They would attend court hearings on the unit via video links etc.

They may not necessarily have committed any crime themselves or committed low level crime as part of the situation they found themselves in. But ultimately they were at risk to themselves or from others outside of the unit.

It's really hard to equate these young girls who are 13/14 yo and walking around in leggings and fluffy slippers with the idea they are in a secure unit. I find it extremely emotionally draining.

There are secure children's homes as well, taking children as young as 10.

There are shows set inside these locations that give a fly on the wall documentary. Some are American but I'm sure there is a British one - would give an idea of what it is really like in one. But again, differing levels of severity between each.

I did find your comments about school finding to be a bit antagonistic though. Not sure if you're genuinely curious or if there was something more behind that. Of course these people need funding allocated, in order to increase chances they won't reoffend and can reintegrate into society, as well as keep the rest of the population safe. Bit different in this case as they won't be coming out any time soon, thankfully.

A friend was a tutor in one, there was two sections, 4 rooms for under 16's who had committed serious crimes and 6 rooms the other side which had housed under 16's with lesser crimes and/or psychiatric problems that required launch extreme measures. Between that he two sections was a school room area, kitchens, workshop, counselling rooms etc, there were as also a secure outdoor area. They weren't meant to know their crimes, but had been convicted of manslaughter, drug gang related.

No. A mental health ward and a secure unit for young offenders are not the same thing.

In the case of Venables yes. Probably no shortage of volunteers to pull the triggers

I read a report on Robert Thompson and Jon Venables and the facilities they stayed in seemed more like a youth camp than any kind of punishment.

I imagine the reasons why a child wouldn't want a visit from a parent would be looked at very seriously indeed. I think it would be more likely that parents didn't visit rather than their visits were denied (after a few months, anyway).

OP seems more concerned that they may be getting smaller class sizes in there than anything else.

It suits the press agenda to say that Jon Venables’ secure unit was too soft.

I can assure you that it was wholly depressing. He was in a separate wing. There is talk that it was ‘built for him’ and I’m not sure whether that was true, but it was too big for one child, so perhaps the timing was coincidental.

Yeah exactly! The faux naivety and wide eyes "where is the money coming from" is ridiculous!

Looking to start a fight about extremely vulnerable children

A worker had sex with one of the Bulger killers while In a secure unit.

Disgrace.
Wonder why they never served time in an adult prison the two boys?

OP stop being disingenuous. Just say that you don’t want these children to have an education, visits, dental treatment, or anything other than being locked up in their cell. Don’t feign that you are genuinely interested in the penal system for children!

They didn't have sex with them. The child was raped. Prisoners can't have consensual sex with gaurds (regardless of their age)

1. being sexually exploited by someone in authority isn't a perk

2. if you think this doesn't happen in adult prisons, I have a bridge to sell you

Why don't you just admit that you resent the idea of child prisoners being treated like human beings, OP? What sort of conditions would you like to see them in? An oubliette, perhaps? Bread and water and shitting in a bucket? Bring back the rack?

Class size is irrelevant, as most will be working independently in the same room as others. But between 2 and 8, in my experience

I've visited special schools for children with SEMH needs and despite similar class sizes, staff work in astonishingly stressful conditions. Secure unit classes would be similar or even worse.

They'd struggle to find anyone willing to teach larger classes in a secure unit!

Jesus Christ OP, these are children. Yes, they have committed terrible crimes, but they are still children, very vulnerable children.

They do still deserve an education, dentistry and you know, basic human care. What sort of society do you want to live in? If you prefer I hear Saudi Arabia offers execution to under 18s… maybe that’s more to your tastes?

Agree with this

It can happen. A friend of mine was sectioned at 16 and aged 17 was transferred to an adult secure unit due to no suitable provision for her.

Bizarrely she was not hurt by anyone there because the older people there assumed she must have done something truly horrendous to end up in that unit with them.

A medium secure unit ?that seems very extreme I used to be a mental.health nurse and I worked in acute mental health for years on and off
Most people in a secure mental health unit are here because they have a forensic background are you sure it wasn't a psychiatric intensive care unit ?

There was a young boy 16, who committed suicide in a young offenders. 3 days after arriving.

He hadn't committed any offence. He was their supposedly for his own safety. Because he needed a secure placd. He'd been dragged up by the "care" system something ridiculous like 27 different placements.

Heartbreaking.

Yes it was disgraceful.that the worker caring for him abused him
I hope they were charged and post their job etc

Slightly off topic bit there is a real shortage of mental health secure wards for adolescents. I know of a child who spent nearly a year on a children's ward as they did not meet the threshold for the only adolescent mental health ward in the,area, but weren't safe at home. The journalist Louise Tickle has done a lot to highlight this situation.

Obviously, being on a children's ward was not the right place for the child or the best use of the bed.

Some years ago two girls near me jumped off the Erkine Bridge whilst in a secure unit, one of the girls fathers took his own life too.
Terrible case.