To ask why do people not working claiming FSM get this for free?

[Sprinkledusting]

I’ve just discovered if you claim FSM and even if you’re not working, you can send your child to morning/after school club for free. And not just in our school either.
There are also sports clubs and holiday clubs during school holidays that state they are free for those who claim FSM. To claim free school meals your income has to be so low that you’re not working full time or not working at all, which of the people I know, most are not.
But those who are working have to pay for breakfast club/holiday clubs.

Can someone explain to me the logic behind this? As I simply don’t understand it.

Hope you've got your hard hat on I see a pile on on the horizon.

Really interested to read the variety of comments here, thought I’d share my experience from an organisational standpoint.

As someone who has (voluntary basis) organised out of school holiday activities with a set aside allocation for FSM pupils to receive free places, my frustration has been the extremely low take up and interest in these activities from fsm parents, despite being offered free places and offered in a way that makes it ‘blind’ to ability to pay. All children treated equally, activities open to all, regardless of ability to pay.

The activities - theatre, arts and crafts - have been very popular amongst non fsm families but there’s been a real lack of interest amongst fsm families, many of whom just don’t respond, despite being emailed, hard copy slips placed in school book bags etc.

Take up is probably about 20-30% of all fsm parents whereas sharp elbowed (non fsm) parents who recognise the value of what is being offered are quick to book.

I find this really depressing. It’s the lack of aspiration, lack of value placed on enriching activities even when offered and prioritised and included on programmes with children from all financial backgrounds.

The issue isn't that our most vulnerable children get things for free. The real issue is that some families have 2 working parents and still cannot afford to pay for their DC to do basic things because the cost of living here (accommodation, taxes, food, travel) is so high.

If we our government didn't waste shit loads of money, and let massive companies pay little tax, there would be more money to support our future generations.

Our country is screwed, basically. It has regressed massively.

@Sprinkledusting I'm sure you're already doing this but thought I'd mention just in case, are you using the tax free childcare accounts to pay for your wraparound care? The government basically tops up what you pay into the account by 20% so it reduces your childcare bill (with Ofsted registered providers) to 80%. Some after school club franchises that do dance or football sessions in our area are Ofsted registered as they run full day camps in holidays and so you can get 20% off those by using your TFC account.

Sadly I think this is what a lot of people would prefer- to effectively punish the parents through their dc with a ‘why should you get this for free’ attitude.

These children need support, they need food and they need the engagement of adults who want to make a difference in their lives. Those critical of this system will be the first to moan when another generation is out of work - by supporting these dc their life changes and outcomes are likely to be far better than their parents - it’s a long term plan as well as a short term solution to poverty, hunger and education.

They are not getting free school meals, the school is receiving pupil premium funds...completely different. Only some children fall into both.

changes - chances (intend to type quick when I’m irritated ! I’ve seen first hand how these schemes can help children so this thread has annoyed me!)

I must remember how much more fortunate I am, to be renting (and unable to afford to save/be gifted ££££ for a deposit) than someone who has bought their own home. How stupid of me to not think otherwise. MN really is ridiculous at times.

The way UC is at the moment for a child to receive FSM then the parent needs to be earning less that a certain amount (about £600 I can’t remember the exact figure) however if a parent is earning less than £600 they are usually being encouraged by UC to earn more and sanctioned if they aren’t searching for more work.
Parents are now encouraged into work once youngest child is 3 (used to be when they started full time school)
Dont forget anyone on full time benefits and not working Is benefit capped - they are only allowed to receive a certain amount in benefit per week - if you live in private rented accommodation you’re pretty much screwed.

The only instance where the parents may be receiving FSM and appear to have a lot of material things is if one/both parents/children receive some kind of Pip or disability payment and frankly for that reason those children may already be disadvantaged and miss out on opportunities (not that parents don’t want to provide but health may not allow for that)

It is hard when you are working and it appears others have more for ‘doing less’ but I think we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and this government have made it very difficult for everyone, they’re barely letting genuinely disabled people claim full time benefits so they’re not just letting people sit at home Willy nilly

That’s not including benefits though. So it doesn’t really reflect your income. It’s only income from working.

Imagine being envious at poor families getting support.

If I were you I’d not be envious, but angry at those who have set the benchmarks below the poverty line.

Imagine being jealous and passed off that a vulnerable child is being given food and opportunities.

If you get a house. I have a flat with no garden. It's incredibly difficult to get social housing, you have to take what is offered. Mine is a flat, and no chance I'd be able to swap for a house because no one wants a flat!

Unless something dire happens, your mortgage will be paid off at some point and you'll have an asset for your DC. I'll be working and paying rent until I drop with nothing to show for it at the end so please don't pretend you're worse off than me.

FYI you can get 'anti social yobs' anywhere in any price bracket.

Yes, I'm aware of that? I'm talking about what I've seen on threads here. I live in social housing myself.

I’d ask myself..
Does it affect my child in any way?
Would it cost me any less if these children weren’t attending?
Would I actively take food and opportunities away from potentially vulnerable kids?

I’d hope the above answers are a resounding no and let it go and be thankful I’m not in their position.
Although none of us can see the future and it could well be any one of us.

The logic behind it is that the government believe by intervening early these children will cost the state less over the years as they become adults, and also so they get out of the house and enjoy some activities. We all know people who cheat the system but many are genuinely in poverty and whilst it’s easy to feel anger towards parents, think of the children in these situations. Can you be angry they are going to a holiday club? On that low income holidays / days out are difficult so this is at least something for the children to keep them occupied. If you’re angry at the children you need to have a word with yourself

@MrBanana And what about those or us in long-term privste rental? Both working ft so not in receipt of any support but not earning enough to buy?

I can understand the holiday clubs, as they provide a meal as well as activities. I’m not sure about the before and after school clubs though. I’m not sure the uptake is very high though. One year, my kids qualified for the holiday club (it was after covid, me and dh had been made redundant and set up our own business. We were given a covid new business grant as a replacement for UC) and there were hardly and kids there.

Op the system isn’t fair, or at least it doesn’t feel fair:

I started work at 14 and have worked ever since. Both DH and I have always worked full time. I took 6 months of maternity and went straight back. I had no choice. We paid over £1000 in nursery fees and struggled with school start and finish times. In fact it was all so stressful and expensive that we decided that we wouldn’t be able to do it again for another child so stopped at 1. We didn’t get FSM, but there again, our struggle was temporary in the grand scheme of things.

Meanwhile my relative had 5 kids by 3 different dads and never worked a day in her life. When she is given money she spends it on these huge wrinkly dogs. She has about 6 of the things; plus a bearded dragon; turtles; an aquarium and a parrot. She vapes; drinks and goes out a lot with friends. She spends on credit cards and then gets bailed out by our nan, thousands at a time - as much as £7000! So her kids always appear to have the latest consoles and clothes etc. They also get FSM.

So it doesn’t seem fair.

But then another friend is a single mother to 3 children. Their dad passed away. And mum is trying to do it all, under heartbreaking circumstances.

Now it seems fair.

In both examples it’s the children who go without, either immediately or in the future. Whether parents are unlucky or just frankly shit. FSM and the benefits attached are for the kids, to try and give them a better life or I still better values, whichever is needed.

OP if you are truly left with very little at the end of the month it might be worth doing a finances review.

MSE website have a forum section where you can add all your income and outgoings and they will advise you on places you can make changes. Go through it all with a fine tooth comb. I do this very regularly as things change, prices change, offers on packages change etc and it surprising where you can make savings.

There are also lots of tips and advice out there. If you genuinely struggle to provide snacks for your child there are community pantries, olio, too good to go, fareshare schemes, etc for free or cheap food and they're for everyone (whereas food banks may have certain criteria's).

I'd also suggest if you're genuinely struggling for food over the holidays that you look around your house and sell something/several things/lots of things. Send old books/media to music magpie, stick stuff on eBay and vinted, do a car boot, put stuff on FB marketplace etc. This would help.

But please stop feeling jealous of people in need of fsm. It won't help you. Being proactive about your own situation might do though.

You have not 'bought your own home' until the balance is paid off in full after maybe 25/30years. Until that time the bank or building society own 'your' home. Anything can go wrong within those 25/30yrs meaning you lose said home. Do you think as soon as a mortgage is granted you automatically own the property? And yes,you're right, MN is completely ridiculous quite a lot of the time.

Statistically children from very low income families have poorer educational and life outcomes. This is an attempt to narrow the gap. It's for the child, not to help the parents. The level of household income to qualify is really low. Schools receive money which some of it they can spend how they see fit to benefit those children the most and that might include breakfast or after school clubs. Holiday schemes are usually provided by other organisations and schools refer children to them . These are vital. Makes sure children are kept an eye on and fed in the holidays. I think most parents have no idea how some children live and why this is needed. Be thankful you don't need it.

well it's not fair is it? And there's me working in NHS dentistry and paid "too much" by a few pounds to actually access all the benefits unlocked by FSM which we quite frankly need. vulnerable children need to be helped in a different way not by going to morning club and holiday club when their parent(s) isn't even working. let's be fair

every single person I know who claims benefit has a better wardrobe and car than I do 😂