To ask why do people not working claiming FSM get this for free?

[Sprinkledusting]

I’ve just discovered if you claim FSM and even if you’re not working, you can send your child to morning/after school club for free. And not just in our school either.
There are also sports clubs and holiday clubs during school holidays that state they are free for those who claim FSM. To claim free school meals your income has to be so low that you’re not working full time or not working at all, which of the people I know, most are not.
But those who are working have to pay for breakfast club/holiday clubs.

Can someone explain to me the logic behind this? As I simply don’t understand it.

The income from work to qualify for FSM is less than £8k a year. I'm a single parent and never qualified for FSM.

I didn't say I was worse off but don't make out I am much better off than you. Only in housing which we have yet to pay off. If my husband lost his job or anything else I would struggle to pay it. Sympathise on the lack of garden with you though. We don't have one either or the tiniest one ever.

Edited to say you will probably get your care paid for whereas I would have to sell the house to pay for it.

Seems understandable but do you want to give up your job then and claim? If not why not? If it's such a good deal then do it too. Otherwise just accepts rules and criteria are never perfect and some of the people who get help may not deserving of the help, but most will be. And anyway the focus is their children, not them.

People don't seem to realise that getting UC does not automatically equal FSM and other things! I work full time, get UC and do not get FSM, I pay full council tax, do not qualify for free dental care or prescriptions. To get those things your income needs to be EXTREMELY low. Most people who get those things are those who are unable to work much due to disability or whatever reason.

It’s not always lack of aspiration, have you tried a survey on barriers to access?

It could be that FSM parents are worried they might be asked for travel, won’t have the bus fare to drop child to you for activity, worried their child might be only one with no spending money, or laughed at for poor clothes. Pride.
Parent might need help with younger children also on holiday, worried that they cannot provide same to other siblings.

I am not poor and would be sharp elbowed to get my child a place but I recognise that poor folk have considerations we don’t always think of. Holiday poverty is a thing remember.

@Needathickskin That happened at my children’s school last summer, an arts camp was running and a number of places were allocated for FSM children. They ended up offering free places just to anyone who wanted them, because the targeted parents were not responding or declined. DD and a number of her friends ended up going for a few days for free (thanks to one mum on the WhatsApp who spread the word very quickly!) and had a brilliant time.

I do get the frustration of it feeling like those kids are getting loads of stuff for free when a lot of us work hard and pay for our kids to do things, but I work in a school and I don’t think any of us would want most of their home lives for our families. If it gives those kids any kind of support, it’s worth it!

Just as covid hit I lost all my overtime at work. It meant that whilst my income dramatically reduced, I was just and I mean just over the threshold for any free school meal help. Which meant after I’d paid for everything I would have been worse off than the people receiving them

This continued through Covid whilst I knew a few families receiving vouchers (about 30 per child I think) through lockdown to help I had my income slashed and was struggling with no help at all. One of my friends who received these had a good amount of savings.

A couple of my daughter’s friends who are on FSM are not in poverty. The parents don’t work by choice. I don’t judge or care these are good friends. But it’s definitely not as simple as everyone who gets the help are vulnerable and the ones who don’t are just fine.

Luckily my financial situation has improved now but I remember how hard it was and feeling that it just wasn’t fair.

Not in our area you can't.

I would love nothing more than to be able to work, but being a carer to a severely disabled child 24/7 who has toddler tantrums in a 13 year old body, is non verbal, still in nappies, keeps me up in the night etc etc is a job in itself.
I don't get any free child care and no respite either (single parent).

I don't need to do it thanks very much I don't even live in the UK and with the cesspit it's become doubt I'll be returning. No idea how good it is either though plenty of people seem to be content to do both.

Again, that's not a given though. Not everyone needs care! 3 out of 4 of my grandparents are dead now and none ever needed care so they've all left assets to their children.

There you go, you don't need to do it. So stop moaning about those that do.

@zoom1982 oh gosh all these poor home owners having it so hard! If it was such a better and more secure prospect to live in rented accommodation for your whole life, no one would even bother to buy a house. It's stupid to try and make out that someone who has had that opportunity is worse off.

Yes, this is what I found also. My kids briefly qualified for the holiday clubs when they included ‘family impacted by covid’. I took my kids there, more for childcare and activities while we set up our new business after being made redundant. Hardly any children were there, despite it being a really good club. My friend who teaches locally said that, unfortunately the parents of children on FSM rarely take up these offers.

They need breakfast and they need to be in school - that’s the reality and by offering a free club it will
get more kids in and fed and ready for a day of learning. They need that.

What's your point? Not everyone on benefits is on FSM, which is what the thread is about

@GKD yes, totally agree on addressing the barriers to access and we’ve offered flexibility on day, offered free places to siblings (not just fsm child). site in easy walking distance of school, so no travel costs to consider - but still a very depressingly low take up.

so frustrating! Really want to be helpful and offer a genuinely good experience to all children, but it’s so depressing when the take up isn’t there from families who might have most need.

@MrBanana it might not include income from benefits but imagine how little you have in the first place if your income is less than £7.5k a year. Universal credit will obviously mean they've got more money than that - enough to actually live on - because, let's face it, you're not living on £7.5k a year. Imagine the shit situation you're in if your ANNUAL income is in four figures.

You can’t just choose not to work under UC - they are actually very strict. To not have work commitments you either have to be on LCWRA or have a child in receipt of dla so you are classed as a carer - do those not being pushed and sanctioned by UC to work will be having a very difficult life indeed and need all the support they can get

I can’t quite beleive what I’m reading, to be jealous of people whose income is so low they need free school meals and them to declare they aren’t struggling and get a new toy every week.

😱

The funny thing is, the benchmarks for getting public assistance was higher pre 2010, ppl voted for benefits to be slashed because of benefit porn poverty shows and why should they get something for free.

They slashed benefits and also decreased thresholds and now you have some folk who voted for this complaining that x gets something they don’t.

I rem a woman on QT complaining to a Tory MP that she voted for them to slash benefits but then they cut her WTC…..

You can't choose not to work. I'm a single parent getting UC and cannot choose not to work, I'm required to work a minimum of 35 hours a week.

Did you survey the parents to find out why?

I don’t mean to pick you out, I’m only asking as there must be a reason why they don’t access it and I (maybe naively) refused to believe that the maj of FSM parents have no aspiration for their kids.

For 1 it would mean not having to look after them for the day.

Many good meaning folk make assumptions on what poor ppl need for access without actually asking them.

Absolutely true. But. proportionately, children on FSM do have some kind of home situation. Which often ties into why the household income is so low. Some of the things causing low income (less then £7400 earned a year) could be unwell/disabled parents, parents with caring responsibilities, trauma/abuse/escape from abuse, addiction...I could go on. Lower income can mean less space at home, shared bedrooms, no where to play, no toys, no where to study or revise at home.

The issues triggering eligibility for FSM could be short term. Or long term.

Whatever the issue, history has shown that statistically children from poverty have less social mobility than others. They do lesswell at school, go on to earn less themselves. The circle of life.....So, in order to make some steps to redress that social mobility there is the FSM criteria.

So a child from a household where the parent has been up all night caring for their SEN sibling, will still get a meal, even though the parent has not been able to find the time (let alone the money) buy anything for the cupboards or make a packed lunch. So the child will be flagged to the school when revision resources are being offered to students, and parents will not be asked to pay for 8 or 9 different sets of CPG guides - as the parent uses so much of their income on taxis to hospital appointments for their sibling and their single parent cannot work due to caring responsibilities.

Before school and after school clubs are not universally free for FSM students. It will be on a school by school basis. The school will look at it's cohort and decide if this will benefit the children. And direct some of the FSM funding towards it.

If it could just hugely, hugely benefit say 10% of FSM children how could anyone begrudge it, just because they themselves have to pay? If you take yourself out of your own little world, think of that child :
who is motivated to get to school as it means they will actually get breakfast
whose parent(s) see the value in getting them there early as it is one less meal to provide
have a safe, calm start to the school day
have an after school haven where they can do homework, play, runaround, study for an hour - what kids should be doing - which FSM often do not have the home to do.

Really? How could you begrudge this?

Yes, some FSM children will have parents playing the system who can provide all this. But really that is a DailyFail-eque trope. The majority of FSM children have a fucking tough time of it. However loving/caring their parents. It is fucking grim being on that low an income. Be hugely impressed by your school for being caring enough to offer it. Not whining about "it's not fair".

What??!!!

The children I know who are on free school meals have a great, loving, warm home life. Just because their parents are struggling on benefits, doesn’t mean they’re not able to provide a loving home.

What an awful, judgemental post.

UC rules for people who think you can "choose" not to work. Minimum of 30 hours for ages 3-12, 35 for age 13+. If someone has a child between these ages and is not working and claiming, they will need to have a reason for doing so such as a disability.