Burnt out colleagues setting standard

[TheAquaMoose]

I work in a small sales department with three other people. Two of whom are slightly more senior and part of leadership teams.

We're contracted for a 35 hour week and I regularly clock up around 40 hours, complete tasks on time, meet targets etc with no issues. I sometimes do a bit of work in the evening or at the weekend when needed but try to maintain clear boundaries for work/ life balance as I've come close to burnout in the past in other roles and have family responsibilities.

The two more senior people are both workaholics, doing 50+ hour weeks or more all the time, emailing at 11pm, weekends, into their annual leave time and never really switching off.

One of these colleagues is in therapy for anxiety, the other has been pulled up by HR for not taking breaks/ eating breakfast etc. Their results have been a bit better than mine, however their mental health and wellbeing is suffering and I'm not sure if both will be able to sustain this work rhythm forever.

I do offer to help both colleagues regularly so they can work less. One accepts but has so many other responsibilities that it doesn't change much, the other is a very reluctant delegator. It's worth mentioning we are on track to meet all revenue goals and figures are good.

The CEO commented that I'm not as driven as these two colleagues. Maybe he has a point but I also feel these colleagues set impossibly high benchmarks at the expense of their wellbeing and is it fair to expect everyone to do this all the time? The CEO has commented that everyone should be doing extra hours (not just sales).

During my working hours I am very driven and focused on meeting the numbers, getting deals done etc but I'm not prepared to do 50 - 60 hour weeks every week (I've done it occasionally for big deals and events)and risk my mental health and burnout. I'd be no use to anyone then.

AIBU with my view? I think since having kids I'm just conscious that work is work and I don't think burning myself out and sacrificing my health for a company that would replace me in a heartbeat is a good idea. That doesn't mean I'm lazy or don't care either. I work hard, but I also eat breakfast, take breaks, delegate etc

I'm suppose I'm posting as I feel a bit rubbish after CEOs comment and reevaluating my approach to work as feel like I'm doing it all wrong.

But then I see these colleagues commenting about forgetting lunch or not sleeping well and I'm thinking, is that really the best way to do things?

Don't blame the colleagues, they can do as they like, but blame the CEO for setting a bad culture. If it's not standard in your industry to work long hours, you could look elsewhere.

As the pp said it’s the CEO who holds the responsibility for encouraging a poor work/life balance for company profit at the expense of employees personal lives and health.

Not all employers are like this so look for a new job is you feel like you need to cave to the CEO’s expectations. You’re just a number making them money and they’ll replace you in a heartbeat.

I learnt the hard way and I’ll never let myself be taking advantage of again by any employer, regardless of how good the job is on paper.

Very poor culture.

I had an excellent manager years ago who always said regular overtime just masks resourcing or capability issues.

I’ve always remembered that and it’s universally true.

You sound like you’re doing well and have balance.

Would you consider looking for another job? I don't think the employer is being very fair and you don't want to get trapped into the same work/life balance.

I agree this sounds like a poor company culture driven by the CEO

The current company I am in now the CEO talks regularly about how he doesn't expect people to check emails outside of work hours etc and he means it

It means on the occasions where the shit hits the fan we all pull together to fix it because we still have something left to give

But if everyone is already running on empty for normal BAU then there is nothing left to give when an emergency or a big deal etc happens

I’d polish up a few throw away answers and keep an eye on the opportunities elsewhere.

Things like ‘not working your slaves to death’, but positive and polite 😂

Maybe-
I’m so much more efficient when my work life balance is healthy.
I’m at my best when I’m not worrying about burnout.
I know I can get great results and keep myself healthy. If I let the healthy lifestyle slip, my results will slip too.

If the CEO wants people to work additional hours, then they need to pay overtime.

You're already give them 5 hours a week of your life for free, that's 240 hours - 10 days a year you're giving them with nothing in return (my maths isn't great so this may be wrong!)
The CEO is clearly showing a lack of respect for you and your life by expecting you to work for free and is setting a terrible example! If you're on target, then you're performing well. That should be worthy of praise rather than guilt tripping you into questioning yourself. It sounds to me like the workplace culture needs to change. It sounds like your colleagues are already suffering and in general, I would expect a high staff turnover and low morale in a work setting like yours.

I don't think burning myself out and sacrificing my health for a company that would replace me in a heartbeat is a good idea.

This hits the nail on the head.

I remember in my first job there was often this sort of culture, usually driven by workaholic managers. But most people there were still relatively young, had been with the company since they were new graduates and there was a lot of loyalty to the company. I think there was a feeling that we all pull together when necessary, throw our shoulders to the wheel etc, and it will be be recognised and rewarded.

But when a downturn comes and people have to be fired you find it really counts for nothing. There is no sentiment about it. The people who are kept are not necessarily the ones who towed the line and worked their guts out, it is the ones who are going to be of most use in the near future.

I remember one guy who had been incredibly dedicated and was an expert in his field. When asked he relocated his whole family to a different part of the country for his job. Within a year the company decided that his line of work was no longer one they wanted to continue so he was made redundant.

They are not your family or your friends. They are your employers. Do a good job for them and do what you are paid to do. But you don't owe them more than that. I would be starting to look elsewhere if this is the culture they want to instill.

It's actually worse that that, because it should be looked at in term of working days so eg 240hrs based on 35hr 5 day week it's like working an extra near 7 weeks for free

If i were you I wouldn't work any extra hours for no pay.
Youre basically lining the pockets of ceo/ shareholders and at expense of your mental health and family life.
It's a form of slavery.

I'd be looking for a better job.

Course your CEO would say that, it's free labour. Shop around casually for a new job with better values

I would either dig in and continue working the way you are, which is completely reasonable and does not mean the anxiety your colleagues experience - have you been there more than 2 years? If so the CEO can't easily get rid of you. Or, I would look for another job, but you really shouldn't have to. What does your contract say? Does it insist you opt of the EU working hours limit that is still retained after Brexit?

So the CEO's business model involves employing and paying people for 35 hours a week but expecting them to work 50 hours a week! Your colleagues must be deranged to do this. Don't get sucked into this madness. Your colleagues will likely burn out and I don't see the CEO being at all helpful if they do. I'd probably look for another job.

Don’t work any extra hours as you already do more than your contract requires. It sounds like they need extra staff rather than working everyone into nervous breakdowns. It’s a very inefficient way of working because eventually overworked or stressed staff will make mistakes, go off sick or get fed up then leave.

It's a shame that none of you can see what you're doing

By working all these extra hours the problems are being made worse

If you all worked your standard hours the shortcomings would be visible

Instead what's happening is that people are breaking their backs and running themselves in to the ground

You are all only a number, remember that

Clearly there's too much work for three people but nothing will change whilst you all keep doing extra hours

You think you're doing the right think but all that will happen is that things will be left how they are as the work is getting done. That's all the powers that be care about

If you want change you need to give them a problem, work standard hours and once work isn't finished on time the boss will have a wake up call

Yep this is a ceo issue - unless the comment was supposed to be a joke. I work a lot of hours because I am a workaholic but am always clear that is my choice and not something I expect from others!!

Err? Working time regulations? Employment laws? Breach of contract?
Health and safety at work act?

I assume your CEO is either stupid to have never heard of these, a narcissistic bellend who thinks he’s above these or an unethical arsewipe who ignores these and treats his staff like shit.

Take your pick…. Either way I’d be looking for another job because he doesn’t give a shit about you or what you do for him.

It would depend on how much you earn to decide what is and is not unreasonable.

I'd be looking elsewhere.

YANBU and perhaps you should let the CEO know that you value your health and have no wish to be in therapy (if the CEO is aware that your colleague is).

And you should be looking for another job.

”I’ve been thinking about what you said about not being driven and I felt it necessary to challenge this. I don’t believe having boundaries that prevent me from burning out, taking frequent time off work sick and give me a work life balance makes me less driven. I’m meeting the expectations of my role without sacrificing my wellbeing or personal time.”

That’s a terrible office culture, really unhealthy and also really dated. Your CEO’s an idiot. I’d be looking for a job in a nicer, more inclusive company where they respect work-life balance.

I'd be tempted to point out that ill/hospitalised/dead workers tend not to be terribly productive.

Tell him if the expectation is that everyone works 50-60 hours a week he should put that in his job adverts and amend the pay accordingly and see how many people apply.

Everyone knows if you go to work as a doctor or a big law firm you’ll be working more than 40 hours a week but the work and status pays accordingly, for a bog standard office job I’m going there to earn money to live, that’s it.