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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not have stood up for my abused mum

26 replies

NeverGrownUp · 09/02/2024 16:49

My dad has always been a decent father but a bad husband. Not physically but emotionally, verbally and I suspect financially abusive. Even as a child I knew it wasn't right but I didn't speak up. Didn't take my mum's side. Whenever they had an argument (and by that I mean my dad yelling and my mum shushing him so we kids don't hear) I'd lock myself in the bathroom and cry like an idiot.

I don't think a child can or should be expected to speak up for their parents and I'd never expect this from my own kids but I didn't tell my dad he was wrong when I was older either. It's only recently that I've started speaking up. Maybe for the last 5-6 years. Telling him he needs to treat my mum well. I wish I'd said something earlier. I wish I'd told my mum that it was OK to get divorced. Or that it would have been OK to escalate the argument and shout back rather than put up with everything.

Now my mum is old and broken. They both are. I'm so angry. Angry with my dad. Angry with a society that teaches women to put up with so much crap. Angry with most men for being selfish and self centred. Angry with my husband for being less than perfect. I'm angry with my mum for not standing up to my dad. And most of all I'm angry with myself for not having protected her. For not having tried hard enough to make her life better.

I know I'm bu. I should have done more earlier. What's the point of crying about spilled milk now. I'm trying to do what I can for my mum now but what's the point?? I should have done it earlier.

OP posts:
MurielThrockmorton · 09/02/2024 16:54

It's not your job to protect your mum, it's your parents" job to protect you, but when you're a child in this position, you think everyone else's happiness is your responsibility. I was in the same position, even though my mum had less power than my dad in the relationship, she still had more power than me because I was a child. She still doesn't recognise how harmful my dad's treatment of me was to me. There maybe things things that you can do now to support her, but only if she actually wants help, your priority is looking after yourself and healing. You can't change people who don't want to be changed.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 09/02/2024 16:56

Of course you couldn't do anything, you were a child! It's not your fault, truly.

She can still get divorced, or seperate, if she wants to. You could offer to help her with that if you think that's something you could do?

You had no choice but to be there, the adults should have protected you, not exposed you to abuse.

LittleRedYarny · 09/02/2024 16:57

You’re absolutely right women now, and in the past, should never be made to feel like they need to stay in relationships like this and you’re absolutely right to feel angry and all your feelings.

having read your post, I get the feeling there are two elements here one is your guilt that you feel about the past and you need to absolve yourself of that and then need to care for your mum now.

The only real option for absolving yourself of any guilt as to work through your feelings, whether that be on your own, or with a trained professional.

Ultimately, you were a child and it is not a child’s responsibility to take on the righting of wrongs in your parents marriage. It’s their marriage not yours. However, anything you can do now for your mother is worth it. While it may not repair what has happened to her in the past, it may give her a form of emotional relief now.

Maray1967 · 09/02/2024 16:58

Yes, I agree with the first response. I’m so sorry for what you’re dealing with - but it wasn’t your job to have to do. Now, you can let your mum know how you can support her, but no child should have to protect a parent. Please don’t place that expectation on yourself.

EveryDayIsASchoolDayOnMN · 09/02/2024 17:00

My daughter says that no child should be born with a job.

She is 100% right - whether that is a job as an Elastoplast to try to keep a marriage together, or to look after younger siblings when they are older or, as in your case, to "stand up" for your mum.

She was the adult, she chose to stay (which must've been hard for her). but it was her choice.

Mrsjayy · 09/02/2024 17:00

I grew up In aggressive sometimes violent household I get it, but your mum probably didn't want to break up her family didn't know how to leave or felt she had to put up with it. just support your mum the best you can but it was never your job to be responsible for their terrible marraige.

MadDogMama · 09/02/2024 17:01

Hey OP, sorry you are feeling the burden of this but IMO it isn't your burden to carry.
You, as their DC, are not responsible for your parents behaviour and it would have been incredibly risky to have involved yourself when you were younger, i.e. DF making DMs life even harder because you stuck up for her.
You are not responsible for your DMs happiness, she is. She will have known she had choices and, bless her heart, she chose to stay and put up with it, for reasons you may never know.
You are doing your bit now to make it known your DFs behaviour isn't acceptable and that's enough.

I mean all of what I've said from a good place, I don't mean to be harsh.

Please stop beating yourself up.

coronafiona · 09/02/2024 17:01

By speaking up for her now, she knows that she brought you up in a way that doesn't repeat the cycle, take some comfort for that. No child can stand up to an abusive child parent; the parent has all the power. Don't blame yourself x

NeverGrownUp · 09/02/2024 17:29

Thank you all for your kind words.

As a child I always felt guilty for not protecting my mum and for not being as close to my dad as I was to my mum. Like I said he was a good father. Well, as good as someone can be who doesn't understand thst kids need you to treat their mum well. Well, in his mind he was a good husband as Well because he didn't hit my mum or drink or cheat on her and provided for us all. In her mind that makes him good enough as well apparently.

Anyway I can forgive child me but what about teenage me or twenties me? Why didn't I say anything then? I was never in danger. My dad was kind to me. Maybe he would have listened.

Now he's got dementia and he's shouting and yelling for every tiny little thing. And I know that an inability to regulate your emotions is part of dementia and I know that he is really suffering immensely with his physical and emotional health. I do feel bad for him but I also get so angry when he's being unreasonable or aggressive. Because I think he was always a selfish, nasty person and he still is.

OP posts:
Mrsjayy · 09/02/2024 17:34

what would your mum have said? it wasn't your business or ssshhh don't let your dad hear the list of excuses and "reasons ' would have been endless, you did nothing wrong but kept your head down and survived.

Mrsjayy · 09/02/2024 17:35

is he in care op or is your mum caring for him at home?

MatildaTheCat · 09/02/2024 17:45

Now my mum is old and broken. They both are. I'm so angry. Angry with my dad. Angry with a society that teaches women to put up with so much crap. Angry with most men for being selfish and self centred. Angry with my husband for being less than perfect. I'm angry with my mum for not standing up to my dad. And most of all I'm angry with myself for not having protected her. For not having tried hard enough to make her life better.

So I think you have demonstrated that he wasn’t such a good dad. This is the legacy of being brought up in a home with domestic abuse. It is a sobering reminder that yes, verbal abuse is destructive and harmful and children are damaged by it.

@NeverGrownUp you have articulated your anger so clearly. How can you address this and forgive your childhood self for what you could never have done? Might some therapy help?

You never had the power to change your father. He is responsible for his actions. I hope you will find some peace.

noooooooo · 09/02/2024 17:47

I somewhat identify with this. Can I ask what age you are?

I never felt I could have stopped it, but I felt anger at my father for most of my life. And now I find - I don’t. I feel pity for the child I was, I feel if my childhood had been happier my life would have been different. Maybe worse, who knows, but I know a lot of the issues I have now are down to what happened through my formative years and those issues are mine to deal with. Can’t keep playing the ‘abusive dad’ card forever though. ’Poor me’ was a routine my dad did and it’s not a way I’d choose to go through life. Man might well hand on misery to man but I felt it was my choice not to let it deepen through the generations.

I wish my mum had had more courage, and hadn’t, by her inaction and complicity, let us be his victims too. She was abused badly and I am traumatised still by what I saw and suffered - but they were adults with agency and both had choices. They could have sought help, but didn’t.

I understand it’s very hard to leave an abuser, and I don’t judge her. She is who she is and did what she thought was right - or least wrong, maybe. I seriously doubt you speaking to her could have made a difference. It was way beyond your influence and if abused kids were able to change these dynamics, they absolutely would.

Forgiveness wasn’t actually something I actively sought. It was more like healing. Honestly, it wasn’t always pleasant to do- I felt like part of me had gone missing. Like my special parcel had been left on the bus, or something.

One day I just woke up and thought ‘no more.’ And I realised I felt pity, not rage.

You’ve spoken up now, and though you feel it’s too late, I don’t believe it’s ever too late to be heard. He’s heard how you feel and regardless of what he does with that advice/information, you’ve said what you had to say. You’re a kind and caring person.

I’ve also had the odd frank exchange of views with my father. He sort of understood, but also made excuses for himself. He’s never said he’s sorry. That’s who he is. That’s somewhat annoying - I can’t tell, but I think he’d feel better if he did - but it doesn’t reflect on me, I don’t get eaten up. He made me, not vice versa. He’s an excuse-maker, a self-justifier, and now he’s frail he looks for comfort from his victims. That’s not how I’d do it but - I’m not him.

I feel so sorry for my parents now they’re nearing the end. Sometimes I think I preferred my anger, because I feel strange and queasy inside to see them so old and vulnerable. That worry and desire to protect and care for them also brings me comfort in a funny way, because I don’t carry much resentment. It happened, and that’s that. Can’t change it, can only deal with what that has meant for me.

I always used to promise myself that having an abusive childhood would make me a better mother. That hope remains to be realised but I didn’t repeat their pattern. One of my siblings did, sadly, and is married to a person who is very similar to our father. That’s hard to watch and I’m tempted to tell my parents (who are incredulous their child is a victim btw!) but - I am not here to point things out to them.

To me it sounds like you’ve arrived at a place of some self-knowledge. And that means you’re less vulnerable to perpetuating their mistakes, either as victim or perpetrator; that’s no mean feat. There have been times I felt it almost insurmountable pain. It led me through life by the nose until quite recently.

Give yourself a break. You are a victim of childhood abuse. You don’t need to be the target to be injured. You’re a good daughter.

My dad was very keen on blame, and I have little interest in any of that. Not for them, not for me. It solves nothing and serves nothing. Their mistakes are not on you, and ultimately, I hope you come to that recognition, reconcile yourself to your blamelessness, and find peace.

Catza · 09/02/2024 18:03

Luckily, my parents separated when I was 11 so I never got to the age where I thought I needed to step in. It was hard enough protecting myself from him. Unlike your dad, mine wasn’t even remotely nice to either of us. Maybe a couple of weeks throughout my entire childhood when he wasn’t drinking.
As adult, I am furious. Furious that my parents didn’t protect me, that my mum, apparently didn’t know I was physically disciplined and spent most of the time hiding in the toilet when I was home alone with him. Most of all, I am furious that my mum insisted throughout my childhood that my dad loves me “in his own way” thus reinforcing the belief that abuse is a valid way to show love. I forgave him a long time ago and I love my mum to bits. She is a hero for getting us out. But the 5 year old in me still wants to cry at the injustice of what happened and the fact that not a single soul acknowledged it or apologised for it to this day.
It wasn’t your job then and it isn’t your job now. Spend your energy on doing what you need to do to heal and forge your own path. You cannot be responsible for their choices or their actions.

NeverGrownUp · 09/02/2024 18:08

@noooooooo
I'm 51 now. Thank you for your words. I thought maybe you are my sister posting but we were never abused. We only witnessed it (me probably more than my sister). I'm sorry you had a difficult childhood as well and I'm glad you are at a better place now.

My dad has done a lot for me. I can neither purely hate him nor can I forgive him for what he has done to my mum.

OP posts:
NeverGrownUp · 09/02/2024 18:16

I'm angry with the older me. Not child me. Even as an adult I didn't speak up. Even in my twenties I didn't. I started at some point in my thirties. I don't think my asking him to be kinder made a difference but he'd already mellowed by then.

I should have at least said something when i was an adult, right?

OP posts:
Ponderingwindow · 09/02/2024 18:21

It was not your job to protect her. It was her job to protect you. It may be hard to hear, but she failed at her job. Witnessing abuse is a form of abuse itself. Some of your guilt may be displaced anger. You have to accept that as a child there is nothing you could have done.

your father was kind to you, but if you had spoken up, that kindness would have ceased. His kindness was conditional. You would have come into his sphere and attention and suffered along with your mother. It would have only escalated the situation.

as children of abusers we learn to behave and conform so that we don’t draw attention. We learn to hide, even when we are in plain sight. You played the role every child in an abusive household must play because you had no other option.

when I became an adult, I tried multiple times to get my mother out. She wouldn’t leave. She eventually asked me to stop trying. She died still married to that man and I will always be sad that she never got free.

DungareesAndTrombones · 09/02/2024 18:24

It wasn't your job to protect her and I wish you could be kinder to yourself. You were a little girl and should have been protected from hearing him be so hideous to her. I got inbetween my Mum and Step Dad fighting and it never ended well.

I'm so sorry this happened to you xx

Aprilx · 09/02/2024 18:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

noooooooo · 09/02/2024 18:39

@NeverGrownUp

sisters from different misters maybe 😉

A child who witnesses parental abuse is a secondary victim of abuse. It’s clearly important to you that your dad was a good dad. Our dad has been a good dad in some ways too. He was a fierce protector. He would fight any battle for us. He is intelligent, imaginative, generous, and of generally good character; but was also violent, selfish and cruel - he kept us safe from harm from everyone but him. A damaged, misguided, walking anomaly. I never hated him but I lived in fear. I have problems to this day with hearing men shouting (PTSD). I don’t think therapy really existed in those days when it might have helped him, and introspection isn’t his bag.

Weird as it sounds, I will miss him when he’s gone. I sometimes remember the worst and imagine how much pain he must have been in. Hurt people hurt people is a cliché, some people use it as an excuse - but it’s not a lie.

Very few people are all hero or villain. Clearly that doesn’t mean those who abuse should be allowed to behave however they like, but my recognition of how much he was a product of his own abusive childhood made forgiveness easier for me. Obviously that may not be true in every instance.

Do you actually want to forgive your dad? No pressure, no suggestions, it’s personal to the individual, so let it be a rhetorical question, it’s only your business. It’s a question I put to myself when I was in my late thirties - the answer was no. What happened to me felt involuntary. It was actually quite frustrating. It’s like one part of my brain; compassionate, reasoning, uninvolved, took over, and I saw things differently. The journey to recovery started when I heard an adult I respected tell me their honest opinion; what I was describing was criminal, that he should have gone to prison, I was in no way at fault for feeling angry, and had done well to get so far alone. It felt like the world shifted back into focus. Dissonance almost did for me, and it’s almost ruined my sibling’s life. Have you ever spoken to anyone?

What my epic post was saying, really, was you really are in no way to blame; not little you, not adult you, it’s not on you 💐

NeverGrownUp · 09/02/2024 18:40

Ponderingwindow · 09/02/2024 18:21

It was not your job to protect her. It was her job to protect you. It may be hard to hear, but she failed at her job. Witnessing abuse is a form of abuse itself. Some of your guilt may be displaced anger. You have to accept that as a child there is nothing you could have done.

your father was kind to you, but if you had spoken up, that kindness would have ceased. His kindness was conditional. You would have come into his sphere and attention and suffered along with your mother. It would have only escalated the situation.

as children of abusers we learn to behave and conform so that we don’t draw attention. We learn to hide, even when we are in plain sight. You played the role every child in an abusive household must play because you had no other option.

when I became an adult, I tried multiple times to get my mother out. She wouldn’t leave. She eventually asked me to stop trying. She died still married to that man and I will always be sad that she never got free.

Thanks. I know that for many kids in abusive households it would be dangerous to speak up or draw attention but it wouldn't have been for me. I didn't not speak up because I was afraid of my dad. I wasn't afraid that he'd hurt me. I was afraid of his temper. But i never thought that temper would ne directed at me. I didn't speak up because I felt guilty. I didn't want him to feel alone. Or maybe I didn't speak up because I was too self centred and just didn't want to get involved. I don't know. To be honest I don't know exactly why I didn't. There were very complex feelings there with strange misplaced guilt and somehow I always felt sorry for my dad but I think if I had said something it would have ultimately been better for both of them.

OP posts:
samqueens · 09/02/2024 19:26

I’m so sorry you’re struggling with these feelings and all that happened in your childhood.

It may (or may not) help you to know, as an adult, that sometimes the best way to stand up for an abused woman isn’t to call out bad behaviour, and that asking an abusive man to change or do better is more often than not a complete non-starter (not saying it should never be tried). Sometimes the best way to stand up for her is just to be there for HER.

As a child you were trapped in the situation, and I’m so sorry for that. But as an adult you are still there for your mum and still involved in her life, and that is meaningful in itself. My mum is very much from a ‘we don’t discuss our feelings’ time and background, so it’s not actually possible to have a conversation about anything ‘real’ with her. Perhaps your mum is this way too and wouldn’t want it brought up or openly discussed at all.

But from your post it sounds as though you have a tremendous amount of empathy for her, despite the effect on you of living in an abusive home, and that you recognise how trapped she must have been. It might be worth considering whether at some point you’d like or be able to have a conversation with her about it, while keeping the focus off your dad. Just letting her know that you feel for her, that you can understand her predicament, that you don’t feel
she deserved to be treated this way and that you’re there for her could be valuable.

It might lead to a conversation, (or it might make her uncomfortable if she doesn’t recognise, or can’t name, what’s happened - or if she feels too much guilt about it). But perhaps it would help you feel you’d done something positive…

You already know the truth is that nothing you did then or could have done later would have changed your dad, and only your mum could have decided to leave. But giving her the gift of knowing that you feel she is worthy of love and better treatment is valuable in itself. And, if she is carrying tremendous guilt with her (which for many reasons she may or may not be) your understanding could help diminish that load and help alter the cycle of feeling that way.

Sometimes part of the abuse cycle is, after a time, how easy it is to be your own worst enemy and do your abusers work for him by beating yourself up about a whole raft of different things.

You might also find the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That? compassionate and liberating as it has a lot of insight into both abusive men’s behavior but also it’s effects.

Whatever you do or don’t do, make sure that hearing yourself is your first priority for you and your family’s sake. Don’t let your dad continue to abuse by allowing yourself too much self flagellation. I’m sure your mum blames herself, if anyone, and wouldn’t want that for you.

If this perspective isn’t appropriate to the ins and outs of your situation, or useful to you then please disregard it entirely - it’s not a manual, just an idea! 💐

samqueens · 09/02/2024 19:28

Healing yourself (although I’m sure hearing yourself is also always useful!)

Untethered · 09/02/2024 19:36

Don’t feel bad, OP, it’s normal to be a passive spectator in our parents’ relationships.

My dad had an affair when we kids were early teens to late teens and whilst me and my siblings asked dad why and tried to understand and also supported mum, we were never angry with him for some reason.

They are our parents, we accept what they do when we’re young.

WhatWouldTheDoctorDo · 09/02/2024 19:43

You didn't do anything wrong. Not as a child, not as an adult. My parents got married very young, had kids young, catholic guilt. They shouldn't have stayed together, but they did, and I struggle to remember anything good about my childhood. I know it wasn't all bad, now we're all much older, funny stories, memories etc. come up with my siblings, but it's the unhappy ones that stick in my head.

I was angry with mum for a long time. Funnily enough not so much with my dad. He wasn't an awful person, but he was very immature when I was young. If they hadn't rushed to get married and have kids I don't think they'd have made it.

Anyway, my childhood isn't especially relevant, but I wanted to say, try to let go of the guilt and the blame. Your parents relationship is not on you. Maybe get some counselling if it would help?