Hours issues at work due to childcare

[SuzieQ2024]

Hello lovely ladies! Have been a Mumsnet lurker for years and really appreciate the common sense and sisterhood of the posts through infertility, new motherhood etc. So here goes my first one!

Basically I have Mon to Thurs childcare at nursery all year. Fridays I have preschool 9-3 in term-time. I've had issues with workplaces saying they are flexible, it will be fine, and then saying it's not fine/complaining. I 100% absolutely understand the importance of having things in writing but they often won't do this, citing not fair on rest of team.

I've started a new job, still on probation. I couldn't have been clearer about my childcare, work in admin, and can always catch up in evening/weekend if needed. Issue is this was verbal, they wouldn't put it in contract. Now they say I have to take leave on Fridays out of term time, won't let me take unpaid leave as this needs to be in blocks, and are extending my probation because of this to see if it suits the business needs of the team. AIBU to think that this is unfair? I understand that they will have clauses to justify such things. Any similar experiences? Thanks in advance and best wishes to all X

This sounds like a good plan. You'll need to give plenty of notice for your parental leave request. And remember that they don't have to authorise it. Shoe some flexibility and willingness to adapt - this will build you a positive reputation.

There are a number of theads like this asking for xx hours off, not working school run hours (but making up hours etc etc).

As a manager in a FTSE company for many years it becomes impossible to keep track of what people are doing and when. Dont call Mary because she is doing the school run, ifs its a Monday during school holidays dont worry about kids answering the phone, noise in the background etc.

People have taken the pXXs now and Covid taught them how useful it is to be working from home (and saving on childcare). That is why employers now want people back in the office.

My experience is that people will stretch and stretch what they can get away with and sadly others will pick up the slack. I had one team member who always seemed to have some reason why they couldnt make a team call i.e traffic on the way back from school run, blocked road so needed to leave earlier to get kids etc. Never accepted calls after 1600. I took some advice from HR as others were complaining about her but she left to join another team and then I left so it was never addressed.

Putting my tin hat on btw!

Thanks Tracker for employer perspective, and I hear you. I suppose everyone would say this but I don't take the piss and actually answer emails if needed out of hours, offer to cover an evening event if they are stuck etc etc.

Just work 4 days a week and scrap the preschool on a Friday?

I hate to have to agree with you, but I do.

We have had the same issue - I want to be flexible to help people, but it always descends into chaos

The ‘WFH so I don’t need childcare’ issue is one I’m seeing more of. Requests to WFH during half term (how much work are you doing with a 3 and 6 year old at home all day?). ‘Meetings’ in at 3-4 every WFH day because they’re going to collect from school.

Incredibly difficult to know how to manage., given I have huge empathy on the challenges and cost of childcare.

@SuzieQ2024 can you just put them in nursery full time?

If you were very clear on your setup and they told you this was fine etc then this is ridiculous! Can you say this is not working and you want to revert to your previous role & previous arrangements?

Childcare I agree is a shocking price - fortunately that is all behind us now but I wouldnt dream of having a child with me when working. Others have no such issue and additionally they know other people will do their work for them. Its very selfish behaviour. Women (and its almost always women) treating some of us like fools and pretending that they will do 'a few hours to make up'. They wont. And I am not calling someone at 1930 because they are trying to catch up (they wont be doing the extra hours anyway!).

I feel you - I accepted a full-time job with a company I used to consult with at the end of last year. I was really clear about what days I had childcare, and what days would need to be more flexible. They sent me endless emails about how I could be flexible, they needed to support more women and mums eventually, etc... We agreed I'd be available in emergencies on Fridays, but otherwise wouldn't work it, but I often have to work a weekend day, and when that's not the case, I work longer hours - which works in my industry, it's not 9 - 5, so it doesn't put me at odds with anyone else. I'm also senior enough that it doesn't put anyone out when I work, I could do my hours at 2am and it'd make no difference.

Client is thrilled with me, I work well over my hours, and I get a lot of praise - but my manager has still advised me to be "more visible" on Fridays.

Thing is I am not surprised they didnt put in writing. The hours are 0900-1730 apart from if you are Jane who has two children and works reduced hours for xx reason but 'works extra' to make it up. Then there is Alison who moved house during Covid and saved loads on childcare. She is now 2 hours from office so lets give her flexibility. As a PP says - before you know it is a nighmare to manage.

God, I remember one women not in my team who always blocked out 1500-1600. After that you rarely heard from her until the next day....she would send the odd email at say 1900 but only to show she was 'working'. Honestly - we arent fools!

I think you need to frame it to your employer less as about your childcare arrangements and more about what working hours you are asking for and explain how they meet business need. And put it all in a flexible working application so it's clear to everyone.

The obvious options seem to be -

You work 5 days in 4 as compressed hours

You work 4 and a half days and organise a half day or childcare in the holidays - babysitter, playdate, annual leave, holiday club, nursery

I think just a vague promise to make up the hours is difficult to sell

Yep. Or log on late to show they're online, yet no work actually gets done. We all knew it.

Your posts really aren’t entirely clear so I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought you’d communicated what you expected to happen/receive, but the company understood something else, and because it was never put in writing, they had to wait and see what you actually did in practice.

In my experience the work of most office jobs can be condensed into fewer hours than a working week, and there’s a lot of waiting around, but each job relies on someone else’s job, so you can’t actually condense them in practice and just not be there on Friday afternoons, because there’ll be a person who needs an answer from you on Friday afternoon. The waiting around part of jobs and having everyone there at the same time even if they’re not always actively doing something is how it all runs smoothly. It’s why working part time, even when enshrined in contracts, is often shit because you find you’re paid for 3 or 4 days but working 5 to make sure work isn’t held up.

If you don’t have childcare then you can’t work so what they’ve suggested is reasonable.

Ok thanks all for your thoughts, and apologies if I wasn't clear. Food for thought! All the best ☺️

Not addressing the OP but the majority of people who are doing this take us for fools. It spoils it for the rest of us who are trying to get through the glass ceiling or who just want to do a good job (not cover for you!).

Fortunately I am out of all of this now and only work part time but clearly its now rife

Our unit manager is going through so,etching similar with some of the admin team at the moment. She's got adult children and always paid up for childcare from when they were small - and she was a single parent for most of it as well.
It seems like our workplace - a very busy hospital btw - is the one that must always lose out on staff cover (I mean it's not that we are over staffed or anything) because the husbands job is always more important.
It is starting to take the piss.

Well done for taking points on board, OP

Where is the other parent of this child and their annual leave entitlement?

The legislation states parental leave to be taken in blocks. Easy work around.
You normally take eg 10 days annual leave for family holiday. Take that as parental, leaves you 10 paid days holiday to take each Friday. Same money.

Thanks, have to be with them a year before parental leave. But def great food for thought for future! Appreciate the comments

You may be able to get a block of unpaid leave even if it isn’t parental leave.

Are you shouldering all the childcare stress OP? Do you have a DP? If so, he needs to step up too.

Can the child's father do the Fridays? Why does it all fall on you?