Primary school punishment for doodling

[Doodlemania]

Our primary school is becoming increasingly draconian. It’s true they have some challenging behaviour to deal with of late (not generally characteristic of the school in previous years). Their solution is a red and yellow card warning system in addition to their existing shame-based behaviour system.

My child has a diagnosis of ASD and traditionally reacts negatively to shame based systems so naturally I asked at the outset what allowances would be made for neurodivergent children. I was assured not to worry as he doesn’t have behaviour issues anyway so would he unlikely to get any cards and the head said they would brief the teaching staff accordingly.

The system has been in a week and he has had three warning cards, from three separate teachers. One for doodling in the margin (defacing school property), one for writing his name on his new exercise book whilst the teacher was speaking, and another (deservedly) for chatting. I raised the doodling with the teacher and was given short shrift even though I restarted my child’s SEN diagnosis and the recognised benefits of doodling.

AIBU to think that such a behaviour system is inappropriate in 2024 and especially inappropriate when used to punish children for doodling?

I am worried that my motivated and engaged child will just start hating school altogether.

Arrange a meeting with the senco asap and adjust his iep to include paper for doodling (so could be separate to his work) and fidget toys.

This absolutely isn't okay and as you say isn't taking into account his asd.

I don’t believe he actually has an IEP. We’ve had the diagnosis since he was 5, at the start of the pandemic. I’ve never seen any specific adjustment for him and he’s actually never really needed anything. Should he have one?

Child is very much struggling with being ‘different’ at present, and is unlikely to accept any special treatment. He hates that school know he is autistic 😞

This just brought up a memory. I've always been a doodler. I had a terrifying teacher like something out of a Roald Dahl book. She ripped up my work in front of my eyes because of a small doodle. I said thank you with tears in my eyes and returned to my seat.

He should have an IEP that states his needs, what goals they have for him and how they are going to support him to reach them - for example, my DS' IEP states that he had ASD, query ADHD, SPD and absence seizures. One goal is for him to engage in carpet time during class and the support he needs is an adult to be there, offer fidget /sensory toys and a timer to enable him to build up to 10 minute sessions. Go to the school and speak to the SENCO about his IEP. If he doesn't have one then they ask why and get them to write one up for him.

Perhaps he hasn’t needed one up until now; the SEND Code of Practice says children should go on the SEN register if they have a special need that means they need something ‘additional to or different from’ what is ordinarily available to everyone. If he needs something different now, then have a chat with the SENCo and ask them to put some strategies in place for him which can be listed on his paperwork.

to check - it’s only you who has an issue with this and not your child?

Is that correct?

@Flufferblub i have tears in my eyes reading that. You poor child. And this is what I’m struggling with, it feels so much more like my childhood than his. But we didn’t know better 30 years ago.

@Quitelikeit - no not just me. I raised it off the bat as I knew it would be a problem. Child is becoming nervous that he will be given cards without warning, thrives on predictability, and uses doodling to keep his mind focused.

So was the sanction for doodling or for damage?

Op, unfortunately this kind of rection to a child, esp one with needs is to be expected.

Teachers do not get sen training, Senco usually are not trained either and even if one teacher is reasonable and enlightened the other will be stone.

It's the most ridiculous situation and I can only suggest you contact the council and ask where the legal allowances for doodling are and "reasonable adjustments"

*age

I think some schools (and parents) have forgotten they are producing effective adults, not just controlling children. Make a fuss, be 'curious' a lot, raise it with other parents, send them articles about shame-based punishments. Just be a PITA.

We have had very patchy SENCo provision at school; he may have not had one initially because covid (though they accepted him into school because of his diagnosis), and then the SENCo was scapegoated following an Ofsted shit show and left. New SENCo is well meaning but not yet qualified. There have been some … gaps.

so on the one hand your child does not want to be treated differently, and on the other hand you want allowances to be made for ND children. The teacher can't win!

For the doodle, but marked down as ‘damage to school property’ because it was in the margin of his exercise book. This was on day one of the new policy when he had missed the assembly stating the new rules.

I asked the teacher, who argued that he had already been asked to stop once and got the card for continuing. Child disputes this, and that has triggered his sense of fairness.

The child not wanting to appear different is more a consideration for me and what action I take than the teacher. The child’s neurodivergence is protected under the Equality Act so if I push it the teacher will need to rethink.

Doodling really helps a lot of people listen and focus - adults as well as children. It really pisses me off when teachers tell kids off for doodling or not looking at them or silently fiddling with something.

I pay much better attention if I have more than one thing to do. Just sitting and looking at someone while they talk to me isn’t enough to keep my brain busy. I need to have something to do with my hands and eyes while I listen. I hate it when I’m on a training course or in a meeting and some patronising twat says “Pens away! You don’t want to be too busy writing things down! This is interactive training, not a classroom.” I know I don’t NEED to write things down; I just WANT to, in order not to find you slow and boring, which I definitely will if you are the only thing I’ve got to occupy me.

Is it all doodling they’ve banned, or just in his exercise book? I used to doodle on my own notepads when I was at school.

This is me, 100%. I find the move to hybrid has been fantastic as my constant fiddling with things on my desk is not visible.

They are discriminating against him by refusing to accommodate his needs. Remind them in writing of the disability discrimination act.

Well you clearly know nothing about what it means to accommodate a disability 🙄

I’m running out of patience with the idea that teachers don’t have Sen training. As a line manager in the workplace I have to be very aware of any reasonable adjustments my team need including for neurodivergence.

This is bloody ridiculous. Sanctions for doodling in an exercise book. Jesus wept.
I was about to ask if it was in a text book in which case I could understand them being cross but his own exercise book. Haven't they got better things to do with their time?!?!! We always used to doodle in our books in school no one batted an eyelid!

(Although we did have a year 5 teacher who would pick up your desk and empty it in front of you and roar CLEAN THAT UP if it was a mess, they were the old fashioned desks with lids and an ink well, we never knew whether to be terrified of him or find him hilarious. He also recreated the blitz for us by putting the blinds down in the classroom and getting us to all hide under our desks while he banged the desk lids and went around the classroom banging on a bin with a ruler)

So sorry for the massive derail

What a lot of people with SEN and kids with SEN want is for the allowances to be made already, so that they aren't treated poorly. Think about it like this, a ramp is a special provision but all it does is make it equally easy for a wheelchair user to get in a building.

The fact is the ND teaching and parenting work perfectly well on NT children so you could have equality in a second with a bit of time, money and training.

cant he twiddle his pencil rather than defacing his book?