To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

It’s partly 19th century and 20th century. Some parts are a recent extension. We are not brick - except for the 19th century construction that’s bits of brick and flint! So we are a mixture. We have double glazing. We mostly have cavity walls. We have loft insulation. We used to be oil and have always tried to minimise power costs by insulation. We have no gas here. So I accept we have thrown money at this but we don’t have regrets. I also know older houses have issues with heat pumps and insulation. However we haven’t and lots of properties are suitable for installation but, as with most things, there’s drawbacks.

Back to the topic ;-)

No political party would put VAT on school fees if they put the tax payer's interests first! | LinkedIn

Thankyou for that.
Our construction is different to yours so it does look like we can’t have pumps now especially as
We ve had someone else out this morning and they’ve also said our house isn’t suited to heat pumps….how sad as the house leeks like as sieve.
Luckily we have thermals.

Apologies.🤪

Think the diversions occurred as no one had any evidence FOR the policy.

Anyone else think it is interesting that the BBC are running a story on rich people in Sweden?! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68927238

I think tech has made quite a lot of mobile millionaires and billionaires, not just in the UK. It is a worldwide phenomenon.
It seems the Swedes do not tax these rich people out of their country. High income taxes like here, but not wealth and punitive CGT. It seems the Swedes have more sense. There is no point trying to tax the really rich mobile lot as they go elsewhere. I also believe that many will give voluntarily but won’t to a state entity, especially not one that is not their country of origin. I think the Government should encourage more charitable giving to the state education sector. Both at uni level and in deprived areas. There was that story of Dyson trying to build a tech centre and red tape got in the way.

As for education, I think it requires loads of investment at both tertiary and secondary level in the UK right now. If the a Government won’t do this, we will just get poorer. And taxing the part of the education sector that actually gives some people more choice and is innovative is just another form of self harm.

This comment by a former Deloitte partner is interesting @MisterChips from that article you linked:

“I dont think this is anything to do with raising income by a Government. I assume Rachel Reeves has some basic level of intelligence and can see this will cost the Government. This is all about the far left flexing their muscles . The real worry is what else will they do. Makes Starmer and his team look very weak. A much more worrying scenario!”

If the message to the rest of the world is that UK has gone crazy yet again we will see even more outflows out of the economy and the pound goes down even more. We do need to consider how this looks internationally as well!

@MisterChips

What would your feeling be if everything had vat applied to it, but at a lower rate? There is an argument that if the tax gap on vat was closed and a mechanism was found for avoiding carousel fraud then this could be at 15% for example but all goods and services would need to be covered. Some of the negatives of this could be managed with increasing benefits for example and the previously discussed voucher based funding for some activities.

Hi, you raise a huge debate about going beyond this policy to broader levels of taxation and the size of government in general.

For the purposes of the subject in hand, I would still stick to not taxing education, at all, because of the double positive externality (private sector investment in human capital is good for future output, and is taxed at the point of output; private sector education saves the state ££££).

More generally, I'd point you towards today's Adam Smith Institute blog and also to Dan Mitchell's similar blog. The more important thing isn't "how much tax should we raise" it's "what is the role of the state"? It's absolutely bizarre that in the UK we have communist healthcare, socialist money, pensions, housing, education, roads, unemployment insurance, a socialist media giant...and yet somehow there's this myth that the UK is a hotbed of free-market capitalism that we can blame for all our problems.

Thoughts and prayers, everyone, for the poor people who are at the mercy of private schools and their whims when it comes to school fees. Will no-one stand up for them???

‘We do need to consider how this looks internationally as well!’

oh, fuck me sideways, have a bit of awareness! Who needs to consider that? The people in England wondering why their roads are full of potholes, why they can’t get a dentist appt, why the bins aren’t being emptied, why playgrounds are being allowed to fall into ruin, why there’s no proper care for their elderly relatives, why the trains aren’t running, why doctors are striking, why there’s a massive mental health crisis amongst the young… are THEY the ones who should be concerned about how fair taxes being levied on school fees in private schools - that they don’t use - might affect the view of the U.K. ‘internationally’?

If anything it’ll make British private schools look even MORE elitist and ‘special’ to rich families from other countries, and as U.K. boarding schools are already stuffed with their kids It’ll just make it all the more desirable.

@MisterChips "Communist healthcare" {grin}

Anyone unironically using the term communist healthcare has lost touch with reality.
Yeah let them starve on the street and die young.

Idontfinkso
you sound very angry - but at least you can console yourself that you haven’t got any of these useless, thick poshos from private school in your workforce.

TBF we had exactly the same horror stories about Nom Dom tax changes, Starmer apparently wanted this change to appease the "hard left" yet shorty afterwards, the Tories introduce the same policy, does Momentum also have a line into Sunak and Hunt as well?

You can of course bet you re last tax return that this ex Deloitte partner used private schooling, so is hardly unbiased.

@Barbadossunset Sure people should be absolutely fine with the level of inequality and poverty in this country. How dare anyone be at all angry or even passionate.

Where does the cash come from to pay for healthcare, benefits, roads, teachers, police, fire brigade, furlough ridiculousness etc etc etc? From taxes. Who pays the most tax? Higher earners. If Labour insist on penalising higher earners (not the Uber wealthy, that’s a whole different kettle of fish), people will leave the uk. They already doing so. The private school tax is nothing but charges on ‘the rich’ to appease Labour voters. It won’t improve state education one iota. But this is Labour all over. Push people down don’t raise them up.
When the taxes go even higher because wealthier people don’t pay as much of them any more- the U.K. will be in a lot more trouble than it’s in today.

Absolutely.
Anyone who thinks Labour are on to a winner here financially are delusional.
Anyone who thinks this policy will make money for the country I’d love to see some research from Labour on that…..

Labour is not “penalising high earners”.

They are proposing to remove a VAT exemption - a tax break for the most fortunate in the country. On a luxury product they choose to buy.

In effect a subsidy. Since without that VAT revenue, the money has to be found from general taxation, which includes the less fortunate and some of the poorest in the country.

Frankly why on earth would you expect the less fortunate to subsidise the very fortunate.

As I’ve said on another thread, there is a simple solution. Marginally increase class sizes in private schools to reduce fees.

The teacher/pupil ratio in private schools is HALF that of state. There’s plenty of wiggle room.

So the fortunate pay a reduced fee plus VAT - no increase in fees for them. The VAT collected is targeted at the less fortunate.

Win/win.

The state is not subsidising private schools; quite the opposite. The education of a privately educated child is costing the taxpayer £0 (plus private schools pay things like input VAT which state schools don’t). A state educated child is costing the taxpayer around £6-8k per year. Which child is being “subsidised”?

Also, at least part of a private education is not a “luxury”. Educating your child is a legal responsibility. Private schools meet that responsibility.

“They are proposing to remove a VAT exemption - a tax break for the most fortunate in the country. On a luxury product they choose to buy.

In effect a subsidy.”

That is the wrong terminology and gaslighting private school parents yet again. If this were the case, then every other country would be taxing private schooling as well. Oh hang on, no other country does this!

“”We do need to consider how this looks internationally as well!’

oh, fuck me sideways, have a bit of awareness! Who needs to consider that? The people in England wondering why their roads are full of potholes, why they can’t get a dentist appt, why the bins aren’t being emptied, why playgrounds are being allowed to fall into ruin, why there’s no proper care for their elderly relatives, why the trains aren’t running, why doctors are striking, why there’s a massive mental health crisis amongst the young… are THEY the ones who should be concerned about how fair taxes being levied on school fees in private schools - that they don’t use - might affect the view of the U.K. ‘internationally’?””

More gaslighting, yet again. Clearly I never meant that internationally rich parents using boarding schools could not pay VAT. They are in the minority, 5% of private school parents.
The message to the rest of the world is here we go again, crazy UK, we did Brexit and now we are taxing private schools in a strange way, no other country does it, yet more self crazy harm. DON’T INVEST HERE. BANANA REPUBLIC POLITICS.

@Another76543

A tax exemption is a subsidy whether you like it or not.

No one is forcing you to buy a luxury product.

Again, lobby your private school to reduce their fees, instead of expecting a tax break funded by the less fortunate.

It’s not a tax break………lots of explanations further back on this thread
Private schools aren’t funded by the less fortunate they are funded by the parents who send their kids there.
The only kids who are being funded by the less fortunate and all taxpayers ( including private school parents ) are state kids @£8k / pupil.

If education is to be taxed then yes all University education will be the next thing that’s targeted.

The less fortunate are not funding private schools. Less than half the population are actually net contributors anyway.

A loaf of bread is VAT free. People don’t view their weekly shop as being “subsidised” by the state. Speaking of things which don’t have VAT added, cake, cake decorations, cooking chocolate, chocolate spread etc are all zero-rated for VAT (which is actually already more favourable than the VAT treatment of school fees which are VAT exempt). So, we will have a situation where we are taxing education but not chocolate body paint.

Fantastic comparison there.🤣

maybe chocolate body paint is an essential non luxury item 😳

It’s specifically mentioned here!

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-food/vfood6180