To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

i don't see people saying the tory changes to Nom Dom are "Vindictive & throwing meat to the baying 'right"

I think the non dom changes are ridiculous. All it’s going to do is drive these people away, so the UK will get nothing from them. They’re already leaving. https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/may/02/i-am-moving-tycoon-bassim-haidar-non-dom-tax-status-super-rich-exodus

It’s not a tax driven by envy. It’s a vindictive tax on people considered richer. Labour grass roots think all private schools are Eton. Obviously that’s entirely wrong but who cares about the truth? It’s what the baying Labour masses want but who cares about the outcome? None of them. Most state schools are good. Where they are not, and haven’t been for a very long time, even when they become academies, parents need choice. Some can get it by paying. Others have to put up with incompetence. Labour needs to concentrate on the latter and improve the schools. Except they won’t attract decent teachers into the job either as, in some places, it’s unionized, militant and generally not a great place to work!

I think what makes me angry is that some state school parents think this is a win for them. This is a policy trying to drive a wedge between state and private school parents so we do not all TOGETHER demand more for our children. We need to do this urgently. We know they have been failed by Covid and successive Government policies focussing on the middle aged and elderly. Save Granny was great for Covid, now it is time to save this generation of children.
And even if you are middle aged yourself - you need the next generation to thrive and pay for you. I find it so baffling that people do not understand this.

554,000 = number of kids in private schools

£8000 = cost of kid in state school

multilpy the two

£4,432,000,000 cost to send all private kids to state school

thats £4,432,000,000

No point pretending this policy has anything to do with making money to improve state.
The more taxes that attack the higher earners, the wealthy and the net providers ( just 30% of the working age population ) the more they’ll just leave and take their money and wealth with them. Then the country and all the envious will be left behind to wonder what the hell happened and whose going to pay for education, health, benefits, pensions.
Well if an electorate refuse to accept facts and figures and advice from academics. If they have opinions but aren’t really interested in any statistical analysis unless it fits their narrative, then maybe the fallout is fair. If I can’t have it you can’t…..

Well if all those horrible parents people slag off on these sites all take their kids out of private good luck with dealing with the fallout of finding an extra
£4,432,000,000 from the budget when the benefits budget is set to rise exponentially due to the rising mental health crisis……but I suppose no one wants Sunak to talk about that either.,…..wow…..crash and burn

I’ve done a sum to help them.
Not that anyone takes much notice.

The problem @Absolutely45 is that Labour are basically riding on this policy to win votes.
If they back track ‘after’ they get in. There will be hell to play
They will never backtrack, they will run it whether it works or not……

Labour also won’t come up with anything to prove it’s a financial and social winner, they know it isn’t already.

One "tycoon" threatening to leave over his non-dom status is proof of nothing.

In remember similar headlines prior to the 1997 election. No one left.

@Another76543 - Of course people like Bassim Haidar will move very quickly. Other countries are happy to have these people in a heart beat. However, not convinced he won’t put some of his 4 children in British boarding schools. They are still better than Swiss ones. Most of these people want their kids to still mix with more normal children than what you find in Swiss boarding schools. Although French schools, Monaco, no idea.

@AhNowTed - it is not a ”threat”. They are all doing it.
If you have an overseas business and you are international, you often want your taxes to go there. So this is bullocks. Plus an inheritance tax policy that outlives a 10 year period following the end of your residency, is utter madness. In Switzerland you pay zero inheritance tax in most cantons.

These people have made their own money. Plenty of other countries all over the world where they have their businesses, eg India, deserve that tax money far more than we do.

In remember similar headlines prior to the 1997 election. No one left.

Also loads of people threatened to leave after the Brexit referendum but I don’t know how many did.
I think had Jeremy Corbyn got in some rich people may have left but obviously he didn’t so we’ll never know.

Universal Credit has messed up the economy
It has resulted in employers paying lower wages and people not doing as many hours because the taxpayer tops up the salaries.
It is crippling the country

Also
Taxes pay to run the country. Their main aim is not to make us all equal or keep it all fair. It’s to run the country
If we keep penalising and taxing the 30% net providers and the wealthy then they’ll just leave. They’ll take their businesses, jobs and tax money with them and give it all to a country that actually understands their worth.
Many UK voters can’t get past the envy.

Who pays for the benefits, disability allowances, pensions, schools, nhs, etc etc etc etc . It’s the net providers and that’s only 30% of the working age population. Most take out more in benefits than they ever give back in tax.

Its exhausting, really exhausting

“Also loads of people threatened to leave after the Brexit referendum but I don’t know how many did.”

I personally know loads who are left and many still leaving. The newest trend seems to be to send the DC back home for uni. These are the Western European countries mainly and Nordic etc. For many those just look like a better future for their DC right now. But nobody knows what is going to happen, the world isn’t exactly stable right now.

A giant tax hole is self employed sole traders ni, by aligning this with employed then this would raise huge sums and be pretty easy to implement.

Pensioners all talk about working hard all there lives and paying there national insurance. It seems many haven't done the maths.

Median income £29677. Ni paid 2306 X 35 years £80710 /11502 annual pension = 7 years.

UK life expectancy 80.7-7 years= 73.7

Retirement age 66 currently... And people were retiring at 60 until quite recently.

The UK is an unfunded retirement village with a country attached. This doesn't even account for the pay as you go civil service pensions.

‘If you are going to ask private school parents to pay more, ‘

I’m not. the only people responsible for charging more, or less, to the customer - private school parents- are the schools themselves.
Theydon’t have to pass it on, isn’t that the advantage of being ‘independent’? They do what they want?
and it looks as if they’ve been gouging parents for years and years now with 5/6/7% a year plus increases in fees, and cost of transport, and extras like music lessons, or sports coaching or drama and in and on…

Yes indeed.

Funny how the parents never look to the schools themselves.

"According to the Private Education Policy Forumm_ (PEPF), the average student-to-teacher ratio across all classes (primary and secondary) is 8.6 students to 1 teacher in private schools compared to 17.9 students to 1 teacher in state schools. That’s double the number of students in a state-run school."

God forbid they might have to adjust the student/teacher radio a tad.

My kids are thriving in state education

I personally know loads who are left and many still leaving,

Araminta are they going to Europe or further afield? If the former have they found it hard to get residency?

The self employed pay Class 4 NI contributions which do not qualify them for state benefits including state pension. They have to pay Class 2 contributions in addition to qualify, but are more likely to be paying into private pensions. The government encourage this to reduce the longterm burden on state funded pensions. But any tax saved by dumping profits into pension funds is paid back when you draw your pension.
Even if you do qualify for a state pension, when added to your private pension, you will pay tax on it.
Currently state pension is still lower that personal allowance but as it is index linked, unless the government decide to lift the freeze on personal tax allowance, pensioners will soon start to pay tax on the state pension.

No pension is free unless you have worked part time or lived off benefits throughout your working lifetime.

@Barbadossunset residency can be tricky but it depends on your situation and profession. If you are medically qualified then this isnt so difficult, you need to pass a language proficiency course (which the employer in some locations will provide training for).

If you can show a long term link or historical link then there are routes as well.

Many people who have left are EU citizens. They have been replaced by non EU citizens. Thats why immigration doesn’t fall. Of course talented people left after Brexit.

No state school in the primary phase can run on 18 in a class. It’s 30 for optimum value for money but ratios then depend on TAs and whether a prep employs specialist teachers. Cheap ones don’t and top ones do. They also build and maintain their own science labs, music facilities and sports facilities. So the fees are not just for teaching. At my DDs prep, class size was 18 or 20. Private schools don’t all have big reserves of cash to shelter parents from vat.

its pretty obvious many dc don’t thrive on state education because some of it is dire. Where it’s very good of course the majority thrive.

Self employed people take a risk. They are not guaranteed an income. Many employ others. They also pay for their own pensions. No employer contribution for them!!! So slightly lower contributions and over pension age who still work pay nothing! Why? Still taking what the taxes contribute towards.

@TizerorFizz and @Angrymum22 there are no equivalents to class 1a contributions and the class 2 and 4 contributions are a joke. Especially as a large chunk of this group also benefit from being under the vat threshold.

There is a huge slice of pie to line this up with those that run companies and those that are employed.

As I said the assumption should be everyone pays tax at a similar rate. If you don't pay and have never paid then you arnt entitled to access the system.

The key word here is national INSURANCE you don't get insurance if you don't pay the premiums. Yes I know it's a tax before ppl bleet on about that.

As the Tories started to cut it then I would imagine labour might continue taking 10% off nic and adding it to incoming tax would simplify the system. Although some issues would need addressing related to pension entitlement.

Thank you thinkingforward for answering my question.

@ThinkingForward NI is a tax. It essentially pays for others in real time but you get ticks in boxes if you pay it. Self employed or not. Pension contributions need to be substantially higher if self employed. If people earn they pay income tax via paye. What needs to be abolished is only paying tax on dividends. These are in effect a salary. Came back to bite people in Covid payments though. They didn’t get any. So income should attract income tax. VAT is a red herring really. It’s on turnover and this can be manipulated. However millions of people are self employed and we need to understand their role in the economy!

Latin is making a come back, and rightly so. Makes much not sense than French, for most in this country..