To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

Really? Golden Goose???

Countries without a large private education sector, have higher productivity, better public services.

If the private school sector was so brilliant/valuable you'd expect to see the UK outperforming other economies over the last few decades..... but we haven't.

One could go so far as to say the people from the PS who have gone into politics have wrecked this country. but probably for another debate.

You seem to have quite an inflated opinion of your worth, the economy functions because of millions of low paid workers too, you cannot do your job if there isn't someone on a low wage doing his or hers.

Just pay the VAT and stop moaning.

Jesus

'Quite an inflated opinion of your worth', massive understatement!

Yes, and you are taxed accordingly.

It's clear from this thread that there are many parents who can afford a private education for their kids, but choose not to. Some choose to spend it on fancy holidays or a bigger house. I choose to spend my hard-earned money on my kids' education, even if that means I can't afford a bigger house, nicer holiday etc. I hate that so many in this country choose to villainize me for that.

What I don’t understand is the wish to penalise those who choose to spend their money on education, and yet it’s seen as perfectly fine for wealthy families to use the state sector (at great expense to the taxpayer) without an equivalent tax charge. Why is it ok for a family to spend £200k on giving their child a house deposit, spending it on luxury holidays or huge houses, but it’s not ok to spend £200k on education (this actually saving the taxpayer money)?

Is a child given a £200k house deposit by family any less “privileged” than a child who has had the same amount spent on education?

How is that clear from this thread? I haven't seen anyone stating that they have the money for private schools but prefer to spend it on fancy holidays or a bigger house.

Absolutely. I have no issue with the VAT being charged.

But everyone pays tax on cars and holidays if they have them. This is a tax limited to those who choose to pay extra for education.
We pay income tax regardless of whether we use the services it funds.
It is only fair if it applied to all educational services including state funded ones. This would include wrap around care, private nurseries, music lessons and holiday clubs. They are all services which are paid for so should be subject to VAT but because they are VAT exempt due to their association with education.

HMRC are ruthless and unless the new rules are unpicked correctly every parent may be facing VAT on some of the services they use. Any part of the services you use that is currently VAT exempt as a result of its educational link could potentially become subject to VAT.

I suspect that the Labour Party are aware of this implication and it may well be their intention to stealth tax everyone but use the unfairness of private schools to drive the policy. The cost to non private parents is small on an individual basis, but when applied universally will generate far more revenue than the VAT on private education.

Are non-private parents willing to accept this small increase in charges on wrap around care and any non-educational activity?

Labour have yet to clarify exactly what is going to be charged and how they will exempt wrap around care. Private schools may be able to offset some of their VAT charge because wrap around care is covered by the fees whether you use it or not. DS used to be in school from 7.45am to 5.45pm daily School hours were 8.30am to 3.40pm so 3hrs were classified as wrap around. 30% of the fees would then be VAT free if the new policy excluded VAT on wrap around in state schools which is paid for by parents.
In senior school DS could also start school early and was often in school until 6pm doing extracurricular. If VAT is only applied to education then the portion used to fund extracurricular should either be VAT exempt or the rules are applied to all educational settings.

Vilify is the word you need

Personally I think that you can spend your money on whatever you want as long as it is legal. However bleating about the cost going up is tiny violin territory as so many more do not have the income to purchase privilege.

In my world there'd be no private education but unfortunately they left my name off the ballot paper today.

Given that many of those things e.g. nursery places are often subsidised they could easily increase the subsidies even if VAT was charged. Same with university fees. Music lessons for a single piano teacher would be VAT exempt anyway unless they were earning more than 85k.

Is it? Where? I can't afford private education ad love in a big standard 3 bed semi and we holiday maybe once every two years in the uk.

My kids won't be getting a 200k house deposit either.

Lower earners don't pay nearly enough of any of those taxes to cover the public services they use or future claims on NHS and pensions later in life. Which is fine, it's how we live. Higher earners subsidise everything for lower earners (and non-earners).

And it means, as I said, that "lower earners don't subsidise anything", in response to the outlandish claim that "state schools subsidise private schools" which takes some explaining.

In other countries, of course, such as Scandinavia, taxes are both higher and flatter so that the "breakeven point" where families actually do pay for their own public services sits at a much lower percentile even though public expenditure is higher.

So your position is completely reasonable in my view.

I have no issue with people choosing private education if they want to - if they can afford it and consider it to be worthwhile, for whatever reason, then that's their prerogative. We all do what we think is best for our children.

You talk about "high earners" as if it was some innate quality whereas in fact it is to do to with the salary that they are paid compared with lower earners and that often isn't justified. If there wasn't so much inequality in this country then everyone could contribute more tax as they do in Scandinavian countries.

Oh love. Is your position in the 1% making you feel attacked?

Not one private school near me costs less than my entire salary. Only 1 is less than my husbands entire salary. Neither of us are terrible earners, but we don't live up north where these mythical £10k a year, charitable private schools are.

I don't know ANYONE who could afford £30k upwards a year by 'having a smaller house or less luxurious holiday'.

The difference with University, there isn't another option, unless we return to the days where only the most wealthy went to University. Lets go back to a two tier society eh?!

You know you pay VAT on holidays right? And stamp duty on houses?

I pay £14,800 a year for my DC’s school fees, slightly more than I paid for day nursery 10 years ago and just a bit more than the same day nursery costs now. It’s very common amongst parents that I know for one parent’s salary to be taken up almost entirely by school fees. That’s our choice but I am fed up of being told that I am rich when for most of my career I have earned similar to my teacher brother. No one would accuse him of being rich.

20% VAT would increase your bill by under £3k.

The thread is about University. Do you agree that University should only be available for the wealthy?

There is no UK VAT payable on foreign holidays. I can spend a fortune on a luxury foreign holiday and pay no UK VAT. Stamp duty is a lot less than 20%.

VAT on school fees of £200k will be £40k. VAT on £200k of holidays will be £0. SDLT on £200k spent on a house will be £10k assuming the 5% rate.

Penalising education more than luxury holidays and bigger houses is madness.

There is no UK VAT payable on foreign holidays. I can spend a fortune on a luxury foreign holiday and pay no UK VAT. Stamp duty is a lot less than 20%.

VAT on school fees of £200k will be £40k. VAT on £200k of holidays will be £0. SDLT on £200k spent on a house will be £10k assuming the 5% rate.

Penalising education more than luxury holidays and bigger houses is madness.

‘It’s very common amongst parents that I know for one parent’s salary to be taken up almost entirely by school fees.’

it’s very common amongst people I know for one parents salary to be taken up entirely with rent/mortgage, bills, fuel, feeding and clothing their family, having a pet -
oh AND the other parents salary too.
Which is why people whining about having to possibly pay more for school private school fees is getting little sympathy from the rest of us.
The handwringing of we’ll have to asked the grandparents to help, cut back on other things, not go on holiday, keep the same car for another Year … or, horrifically perhaps USE a STATE school! Is getting bloody annoying.
Particularly when some grandparents are living off state pensions, and everything else is already cut back.
And any adult asking parents for handouts need to have a good hard look at themselves in the mirror.

VAT on schools fee's of £200k??? Please, cry some more if you can afford £200k school fee's a year.

APD (Air Passenger Duty) is paid in line with rate of VAT. VAT is paid on hotel rooms in the UK, and on take away / restaurant food in the UK. Remember, not all holidays are abroad. Hotels abroad don't charge vat because shock horror they're not in the UK and subject to UK tax laws. Which is quite obvious.

But seriously. Anyone who can afford £200k school fee's doesn't leave my crying into my soup about the risk their precious children might need to go to a state school because there is no other option. (£200k is equivalent to 4 kids at Eton btw)

‘ I can spend a fortune on a luxury foreign holiday’

Ah, well let me step in here and tell you if you swap that for a week in Butlin’s or Hoseasons or maybe even Eurocamp ( it’s still France, darling!) then you’ll be in a much better position to afford the fees without hitting up your parents or grandparents for £££.
You’re welcome.