To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

Exactly
And itemising out what these fees pay for highlights the absurdity of it.
No-one else in the country pays VAT on their primary board & lodging, RE, PE, mental health etc nor any form of paid for education, but some justify applying this to 5-17yo kids only (some of whom have wealthy parents but also those on bursaries or with SEN ECHP etc) .... and this is where the legal challenges will start, equality law/discrimination law / human rights law/ EU law (should closer alignment be pursued)
And collectively these schools are the largest charities (charity = no profit and in line with charity law) in the UK, spending £930m pa on education for 167k kids - 40K entirely free. Next up will be VAT on other charities e.g. health as there is the state option of the NHS available after all

A lot of missing the point here.

After school swimming clubs, private healthcare, and lots of other things people are throwing into the argument, do no not entrench and perpetuate privilege and inequality day after day, to the same extent, in the way private schools do, leading to disproportionate representation in many sectors. The Labour Party is trying to address that.

@cheeesychips
Well private healthcare does if it saves your life or gives you back years of good health which you wouldn’t have had on the NHS! Private school might enable you to make a higher salary over your career, though it’s hard to separate out the effect of private schooling from demographics.

Employers pay for private healthcare because it means their employees are likely to come back to work quicker and healthier when ill. It can give you back months or years of working life and thus the ability to earn more. It’s much easier to see a direct effect on income for those who use private healthcare than for private schooling.

Not to say I think we should be taxing healthcare but I think it’s a reasonable comparator.

Well if Labour meaningfully taxed wealth, unearned income, city transaction taxes etc that would raise circa 50 billion that could be meaningfully invested in schools or the NHS and would genuinely address entrenched inequality, many might be more sympathetic ...but targeting or scapegoating 5-17yo kids education & the disruption it causes, that will barely raise a bean in reality, (and Labour have not committed to raising education spend by a single £) while driving a further hard brexit wedge with the EU (costing the UK economy 40billion pa) just seems disingenuous and regressive.

The money raised from VAT on school fees isn’t going towards helping undernourished toddlers though. The Labour Party have said it will go to new teachers and mental health provision in state schools (in reality it will raise a relatively tiny amount anyway). I would like to think that the large amount of tax we pay as a family, along with the £7,000 per child we are saving the state by not using the state education system, as well as our donations to food banks are going towards helping other families.

FSMs cost the Govt around 1.4bn.

So IF this policy raises 1.7bn then FSM provision can be increased.

MH is a pretty serious issue in state schools after the pandemic.

Better fed kids make better students = less disruption = better exam results = more job prospects.

The UK is unique in europe in going backwards on child health provision, the number cause of children going into hospital is dental extraction, its like we ve gone back to the 1930s.

The (optimistic) estimated £1.7bn isn’t going to be spent on FSM though. It’s going towards extra teachers and mental health provision, according to the current Labour proposal. That £1.7bn will be spent. It won’t then be available to spend on other things.

Increased spending on other things needs to come from elsewhere. Tackling the £6.5bn a year lost to benefit fraud might be a good place to start. That would raise 4 times as much as VAT on school fees will.

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/6765/department-for-work-and-pensions-accounts-202122/news/174208/pac-dwp-excuses-for-unprecedented-and-unacceptable-levels-of-benefit-fraud-and-error-dont-stand-up/

At the end of all this, the fact is that our ageing population is costing tax payers a fortune. We are living longer. NHS wise, benefits wise, old people’s homes etc etc costs a fortune. A huge slice of our council tax goes towards care (older people and care in general). I don’t mind paying that as it’s needed. We have to look after people who can’t look after themselves.

I guess a person could say that wealthier people don’t cost as much when older because they pay everything privately. Wealthier people are often healthier - food and exercise wise.

So why don’t Labour do everything they can to lift people up and help them be successful, not grind everyone down.

@Blanket601

Labour hasn't been in power for 14 years.

And a GE is likely 10 months away.

And they will inherit an absolute shit show, with services on the brink of collapse, a cost of living crisis, the economy trashed, and more people in poverty since the war.

Expecting Labour to have fine tuned plans now is a bit much.

Speaking as someone much more qualified in this area than you, your ideas would bankrupt the entire country in an instance! Jeez! Have you any idea about financial services whatsoever???

What ideas have I suggested? Also, you have absolutely no idea about my qualifications.

They’ve had a lot of time to think about what they can do. The best they seem to have come up with is this pernicious desperate vote grabber. Truly pathetic. How about what they plan to do to help state schools? To help the nhs? To stop mass immigration and its negative effects on the previous 2 areas. They’ve done nothing. Oh yes they have done another thing - told us they can’t define a woman. So that’s 50% of the population invalidated.

No one that knew anything about tax and banking would suggest a transaction tax for the very simple reason that it was tried in the EU and dropped very quickly when the banks pointed out that they’d just move their business to the next country that had no such taxes, losing the country massive tax income.

There is a massive misconception here that bankers pay no tax. Bankers pay PAYE like any other bank. They’re more careful about this than most companies because I’d they were caught helping their employees evade PAYE the reputational damage to the bank would be immense. They are almost paranoid about it.

The private equity businesses do have ways of paying less income tax, the treasury a looked at addressing this but are rowing back on this mainly due to the likelihood of these very wealthy individuals moving country. 35% of the top 1% earners in this country were not born in the UK. They have far fewer ties here.

I do wish people would stop thinking there are great untapped areas of possible tax revenues in this country when there just aren’t. The most meaningful thing this country could do to raise taxes is build houses. Build houses, cut housing costs, reduce cost of living, people can afford to pay more in tax.

Imagine saving your vitriol for Labour, rather than the Tories after 14 years of this!

I think you have confused me with a different poster. I have mentioned nothing about a transaction tax, bankers, private equity etc. I am very much against continually thinking that the top few percent of taxpayers will keep funding everyone else. It won’t work, for some of the reasons you mention.

Find something to actually worry about OP FFS

Who do you vote for OP?

I’ve said in previous posts why this VAT issue is dangerous. No need to repeat again.

I’ve also said that my main issue is with Labour not recognising women. Women’s rights will be the issue on which I vote.

To date I’ve only ever voted Labour. Though I didn’t vote at all in the Corbyn year, he was too dreadful. Then this time, I haven’t decided who I will vote for yet. It won’t be Labour, based on their not recognising I exist issue.

It's not dangerous for me, I think you just don't want to pay more. You have the choice to send your child to state school like everyone else but you think you are better than other people.

I agree op

Some new private universities should be set up, these could educate say... 6% of students, charging fees and VAT. The rest can go to public universities that would be free to attend.

Problematic that one. Currently all educational services are exempt from VAT. Bring it in for private schools and it opens the door for other areas.

Problematic that one. Currently all educational services are exempt from VAT. Bring it in for private schools and it opens the door for other areas.

Problematic yes (because how would free unis be funded) but not for the reasons you state.

I realise I'm shouting into the void here, and on all the other scaremongering threads on the same thing

Err excuse me, a very senior banker here and I was the one advocating for a city financial transaction tax - at 0.1-0.15% of transaction....and wealth taxes & unearned income taxes & 1p Corp taxes
Labour under Corbyn advocated for it - reckoned city fin taxes alone would raise 15-20billion + .....and every other country within 4 hour timezone also use it - reaping billions.... Made complete sense to me, + raise tax living wage threshold to 15k..... but taxing any form of educational service is ridiculous & regressive & only satiates the spiteful