To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

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If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

The ConParty is going over board with its Divisive PR on mums net at moment

This is getting tiresome now. The number of people who have such strong opinions on something they clearly know nothing about is astonishing.

Around half of private schools don’t have charitable status. No private school (charitable or otherwise) needs to charge VAT on fees because education is exempt under the VAT legislation. The VAT position is separate from the charitable one.

The Labour Party have already confirmed that they’ve dropped the plans to change the charitable status of private schools (presumably because it finally dawned on them that changing charitable status wouldn’t affect the VAT position).

But this is a Labour policy looking to apply a divisive VAT to an educational service (driving us further away from EU alignment i.e. an even harder brexit than the far right Tories negotiated).... but then convincing themselves that maintaining an exemption status on all other paid for education services: tutoring, music lessons, banking degrees etc are not paying for an educational advantage.
Reducing VAT free education down to a public sector supplier only (not done anywhere else in the world) which they don't do on any other sector e.g. private health remains VAT free.
The principle of applying VAT to any education service is just wrong

It’s an interesting thought, in theory in agree, I wonder if it would be open to legal challenge? In practice it’s a very different beat.

This is true but as a pp said "Why are so many people invested in this issue?" it will effect a small % of PS users, the majority will have no problem paying these plus its a policy that is at least a year away.

There are so many problems in the UK atm but you and others have tunnel vision on this one.

I think a huge problem is tuition fees, the THs and amounts have meant repayments have shot up, this affects teachers and NHS staff far more widely.

It would be good to see the detailed proposals on this first wouldn't? instead of flying off the handle at a proposal that isn't even remotely in place, Lab haven't even published a manifesto yet.

Got to love the attempt at bringing in Brexit to the argument.

Well that suggests that the means testing method is flawed and needs to be reviewed then-can’t be that hard to do?

While that research is sound I am sure, I think that there is a huge amount of misinformation around about “student debt” that puts people off going to University and parents with no personal experience of the system are not equipped to see past the scaremongering.

But it is brexit related because Labour would seemingly like a closer or certainly more aligned relationship with the EU whose rules on personal freedoms & prohibiting private sector competition in any sector would prohibit such a ridiculous policy.
Good luck convincing the EU that this policy isn't regressive & uncompetitive

The EU wont give a dam, as it gives the UK no competitive advantage, in fact it might even benefit the EU.

Thats why its stupid to suggest this might stand in the way of closer EU alignment.

The EU alignment debate is on the UK reducing standards such as the Tories already have (and gaining competitive advantage)
funny though this isn't being highlighted by the anti Vat fee posters.

There are so many problems in the UK atm but you and others have tunnel vision on this one.

It’s a total mystery to me why so many people are obsessed with this proposal and why, at the moment, is Labour’s flagship policy. There are huge problems in this country which need addressing. Concentrating efforts on harming the 6% of pupils at private school is ridiculous. It’s going to raise a relatively tiny amount of moment. Where are the proper, meaningful policies?

Of course private school parents have strong opinions on something which will cost them thousands of pounds a year. I can’t understand why others feel so strongly about it though; inequality in the UK runs far deeper than a small number of pupils at private school and yet people don’t seem bothered about that.

instead of flying off the handle at a proposal that isn't even remotely in place, Lab haven't even published a manifesto yet.

The Labour Party have confirmed that they will introduce VAT on school fees as soon as possible, within the first year of being elected, and have said it won’t be phased in. It is a proposal which is very much in place.

majority will have no problem paying these

This simply isn’t true. Many families already stretch themselves to pay fees. Coupled with the cost of living crisis, mortgage rates etc, VAT will make a difference to a huge number of families. The idea that the majority won’t notice thousands of pounds a year is deluded and shows a lack of understanding about the families who go to private school.

Brexit is a point worth mentioning because Starmer said he has no intention of diverging from EU law. Taxing education does precisely that.

The EU don't give a dam if we remain outside the SM & CU but for closer alignment (presumably trying to recover some of the £40billion lost pa because we negotiated a hard brexit - imagine how much £40billion could transform state education & the NHS) this would be against their rules on personal freedoms that prohibits education being taxable and state uncompetitiveness

@TooBigForMyBoots rich people pay VAT on everything else, and they buy more stuff/use more services so pay more than you do already.

@Redmat This is excellent news, and I agree, state schools are and can be excellent, as are state school students. So why do you care what rich people do with their children?

@Fizbosshoes the activities they do cannot be classed as 'education' in that case, since education is VAT exempt.

@AhNowTed you won't find the billions the tories spaffed away in VAT on private schools. The small amount that is raised will be offset by its effects on the sector, causing many to move to state. Your point about the fast track for rich people will still exist, only it will be only for the mega rich, and it will be extra fast since they won't need to drag any desperate poor (bursary) or middle class (fingers to the bone to afford it) people along with them any more

@puncheur Fine if you think they are detrimental in producing the kind of people who wish to govern (and those people are generally regarded as useless or greedy or ridiculous such as Boris and Cameron), but what's your suggestion instead, to abolish them? How would this work? Since they are private businesses, you'd need to make it illegal to set up or operate any business activity that educates children. I don't know if that would work. Adding VAT will make private schools even more elitist, and the products even more convinced of their own divine right to be in charge. Would you make it illegal for rich people to enter government? Have a lottery system to make it fair, so that everyone gets a go at being PM?

@JoeLovesGina how are you going to make the small amount earned by charging VAT on a tiny minority stretch to fund 30% of young people through university? Secondly, do you really trust politicians to use the funds for anything they say they will? I don't trust Labour, who introduced Uni Fees in the first place, not to extend the VAT charge to Uni if the gates are opened by the private school VAT levy

It's not remotely the same and if you can't appreciate that I'm not sure a private education has been of much benefit.

@Another76543 Labour also said they'd spend 28bn in the first year on Green Investment, then it slipped to first Parliament, now its subject to private sector investment.
No one can predict the future and the economic state of the economy.

You say labour propose bringing it in within the first year? a GE is up to a year away, so perhaps 2 years before VAT on fees is in place.

This policy wont affect 6%, it will affect a small amount of parents whose kids attend PS, most PS parents will be able to avoid this increase.

I think you fail to realise just how fucking rich some families are. My friend works at a c.£30k+ boarding school in UK. Some of these parents have 2,3 or 4 kids there. Another couple of thousand on fees will not make any difference.
Yes, some will be squeezed out, but not enough to make a difference. Those that are squeezed, will go to cheaper indes on just go and buy the houses in the catchment area for outstanding local schools, pushing the less wealthy to less affluent areas and poorer schools.

Yes, “some” are. However, families with 4 children at a £30k+ school are certainly not in the majority. Also, it’s not a “couple of thousand”. The average cost of secondary is around £18k. With 2 children, that’s over £7k a year extra in tax.

But oh so many people coming on this thread shouting loud in agreement with taxing someone else.

I believe in taxing those who are better off... fwiw, that includes myself.

If I choose to pay for a luxury item or service that I don't really need, then I think it's totally fair that I should pay VAT on that service or item. I see no reason why private education should be an exception to this general principle.

I also believe that people like me should be paying higher income tax. Not everyone is motivated by pure self interest, you know. Some of us actually believe in this thing called society, and we think that everyone will be better off if we all work collectively to make it so.

So you would be happy in agreeing to pay 'X' for for a service. When you signed up at 'Y'?

The only equivalent situation is for the government to say that all parents with children at school, will, from x date, when Labour gets in start paying X for their child's education.

I can't go into personal details, but my DC needed it urgently.

And the local school and cahms was not going to support my DC.

Because I have signed up for this at X price, it doesn't mean that I have X more kicking around to spend.

I don't.

I can't share info, as that would be outing. This is a very stressful situation for us.

Later on in a child's education you can't just rip them out of a school. It's not that simple, it's not like changing supermarkets or broadband suppliers.

It would be very disruptive to their education.

They would be screwed.

What's your point? Under the Tories the cost of living has gone up for everyone so we've all "signed up for a service on the basis of paying X" and realised that number is going to go up considerably. We either pay more or stop using that service. You're talking about a service that is non-essential...a choice, a luxury. You've overstretched yourself to pay school fees and so this might become unaffordable under Labour. Lots of people have overstretched themselves with a big mortgage and now found themselves in trouble under the Tories. But currently people who have not overstretched themselves financially, who have consciously chosen to live within their means, are also finding themselves in trouble so you're unlikely to get a lot of sympathy from anyone in that position.

You don't seem to understand that for the vast majority of people private education is already completely unaffordable no matter how many holidays they forgo. If shopping in Aldi (which you seem to view as a massive sacrifice but for most is just normal) and not going on holiday means you can afford private school fees then like it or not, you are already very privileged. You're asking people to "imagine they are in your shoes"?? I'm working with families who are having to choose between buying food or topping up their electricity despite working full time. They would give anything to be in your shoes.

I'm sorry but complaining about losing a tax break you've previously enjoyed on a luxury service that is totally out of reach for the vast majority of people, at a time when child poverty is rising at an alarming rate and food banks cannot keep up with demand, is not a good look.

To be fair, the Labour Party has been talking about this for years, so most parents should have planned for it as being at least a possibility. It isn't as if it has suddenly been sprung on people, and it will be a while yet before anything can actually be implemented.

I'm not sure lots of people are obsessed with this though. I'm pretty neutral on it and I doubt labour would lose lots of votes if they dropped the idea. Certainly, all the recent threads about this seem to be started by people against the idea rather than for it.

Why do you think people aren't against other reasons behind inequality? On threads about this proposal, people are going to mostly talking about this proposal. I think it does get people's backs up when the threads get full of people talking about all the sacrifices they make, holidays they don't go on, how hard working they are in order to save the money to send their kids private though. People, rich or poor, need to cut their cloth according to what they can afford. The things that they can afford often change due to reasons outside of their control.

In this thread there have already been a couple of calls to not get angry at them but at the people who don't contribute overall (benefits vs. tax paid). I'm amazed that hasn't riled more people up to be honest. Yes, let's get annoyed at low paid workers and disabled. They're a bigger problem in inequality in this country aren't they?

Being obsessed seems to be the de rigeur insult on this site.
I could argue some fee paying parents seem to be obsessed with this issue of vat when there are much bigger economic issues in our economy.

Well said. I wish more people were like you.

We subsidise state education. Private education is not subsidised at all.

No, some private schools are, but actually many are non profit making. They put all the money into the education of the children.