To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

This is all part of the government's long-term plan to privatise the NHS: Run it down, find a scape goat (managers, single mothers, immigrants, unions,...), get as many people as can afford it seeking private alternatives, then invite private equity firms to feast on what's left.

Gosh how awful for you & your precious child @Jaboody. I do hope you are both offered treatment for the trauma of being exposed to those lesser types who are only capable of running about making a racket & eating with a gob, not a mouth. And Monster Munch? How crude. I hope you didn’t choke on your Pom Bears.

Perhaps rather than being feckless time wasters, the parents, like me, had been trying for weeks to get an appointment & were told, by their GP, to go to A&E. Even people you clearly think are not as worthy as you deserve treatment if they need it.

The advantage to social prescribers is they're in house so patients can be booked directly into seeing them by reception rather than another GP appointment to generate paperwork to sit on a 6 month waiting list for a charity intervention.

The government has no long term plans, they’re not evil geniuses. They’re more like rats or vultures, picking off what they can while making it up as they go along. They’ve had 15 odd years and this ‘long term plan’ hasn’t really happened and given they’ll be out by Christmas I would say it’s unlikely to.

"I do think though we should be looking at Germany, France, Netherlands etc and how they operate."

They have national health systems in Spain and Italy. How are they doing?

Absolutely agree! I’ve even had a pharmacist tell me that they couldn’t give me advice about antihistamines I could have bought over the counter. The exact words were “You’ll have to ask your GP.” Went to my GP who was perplexed that a pharmacist couldn’t tell me. This is another nonsensical gov plan they haven’t thought through.

Curious... If you were in a life threatening condition, how did you know that people in the waiting room were waiting for too just antibiotics or had ingrowing toe-nails? Did they put you in room? If so, that's terrible. Hope you're OK now.

People have published extensively on comparisons of us and other systems. Nuffield Trust, the King's Fund, and The Health Foundation have lots of reports and papers.

This is an excellent series of pieces that explore that thinking around the following myths:

1. We already spend too much on our health and despite this our outcomes are poor
2. The NHS is a ‘sacred cow’ and has not been reformed
3. We should copy other countries and adopt a social insurance model
4. There is not enough use of competition and choice

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/comment-series/through-the-looking-glass-myths-and-magical-thinking-about-the-nhs

this! I have to have my bloods checked regularly - one lot for the hospital (rheumatology) and one lot for the GP to check for some other medications... they cannot read each other's blood results! It is insane. Not joined up care whatsoever.

Ironically I am on hold waiting to talk to GP surgery regarding DS13 who has terrible kidney pain, history of kidney problems. Second time in 3 months and he has missed 1 month off school...

There is 1 GP who works on a Friday as apparently they all like Fridays off. New recruitment drive will employ top level staff to work on Fridays apparently. How did that happen?!

Not all the government's fault (and why do you think Labour's plans are any better?)

Whole system needs a shakeup

Everyone does seem to work pretty hard and most of them are excellent however, please do not strike - it isn't helping your own cause nor is it helping patients.

So, basically yet another timewaster then? A stiff neck? Seriously?

Yes, that's silly. I used to live in a place where post wasn't safe so it was a real stress worrying about it going missing and being struck off the list because I'd missed an appointment.

"one lot for the hospital (rheumatology) and one lot for the GP to check for some other medications... they cannot read each other's blood results! It is insane. Not joined up care whatsoever."

That's stupid. Can you not take your own copy of the hospital results to the GP? Or do they just refuse to take them into account?

I would vote for a party that is going to get rid of the NHS and put a European health system in place. Which party is progressive enough to do that?

We have got to the point where we need to consider things like IVF.

Is that a necessity or a luxury when people are dying on trollies?

We are a rich country, so it shouldn’t have come to this, but years of starving the NHS of funding, coupled with mismanagement and a fair bit of corruption means it has.

There are so many better models in Europe. We need to bin the NHS and build something we can actually be proud of from scratch.

Not all are in house though - in my area, 3 PCNS employ direct, one has contracted out. I’d like to hope that the one that has contracted out can still book direct appointments

we operated what are now termed social prescribing services very successfully for years. We’d locate ourselves in the GP surgery so people could literally pop in to see us. We certainly didn’t have 6 month waiting lists

social prescribers in my area are all running with waiting lists because they can’t move people onto the services and social groups that used to exist because their funding all disappeared. So they’re holding caseloads in a way they were never meant too.

its just frustrating that NHS England were told all this. they were told there was no need to start from scratch, that a system existed already, and it would be cheaper, quicker & more effective to plug the gaps in what existed, build on it, improve it & above all understand that without “destinations” to refer patients to, social prescribing won’t work. So funding the destinations was as important as funding the link workers

they didn’t listen

Which might have been something serious as you don't know the circumstances.

Would you call me a timewaster for going to A&E with stomach ache? Probably. It's a good job I did though as I had pancreatitis.

Firstly, If you look at my original post, I say that waiting times for specialists can be long. Secondly, if you genuinely need a specialist quicker, they will accommodate you. Thirdly, if you think 3 months is long, you clearly have no concept of the waiting times in the UK. I was diagnosed with skin cancer in 2017 in the UK and told I would face a wait of at least a year for surgery. I went private and had to pay nearly a thousand pounds out of pocket. I don’t think the Belgian system is perfect but your criticism is a bit pathetic. I KNOW waits can be long here. i had to wait 3 months too for a specialist. But seriously, get some perspective.

Exactly. I wish people would stop making excuses for the government who make funding decisions.

I was coughing up blood last February and sent for a chest x ray it showed a shadow on my lungs and I was referred to cardiology and told the wait was 9 weeks. In June I rang them and they said they could not give me an appointment - or any idea of when one might be. I have heart palpitations - saw GP yesterday and she was like - that ridiculous / however if I move to a different hospital wait via right to choose - I start again

We are European and we have a nationalised heath service. What kind of system do you mean, please?

Oh behave. You know exactly what I mean especially when I said that the nurses told them they were dealing with the really sick children first. Stop looking to be offended.

Last year, DD was suddenly taken very ill in Prague on a Friday evening. Ambulance arrived within 8 minutes (yep, really). Assessed in A&E and seen by two doctors within 30 minutes of arriving at hospital. Full bloods taken and ultrasound given within the next half hour.

Whilst waiting for the results DD was put on an IV drip and tucked up in bed on an actual ward (that was clean and quiet). One of the nurses was actually able to sit with DD and comfort her (DD was only 18 and quite distressed).

Results back within 2 hours, and explained to DD by a doctor. She stayed on the ward, being looked after, until I flew out the next morning.

How can they get it so incredibly RIGHT in Prague?

Exactly. People need to make better use of the most appropriate healthcare, starting with pharmacists.

Last summer, I went to minor injuries for a potentially-fractured foot. It was busy, but I was seen, x-rayed and discharged within about 45 minutes.

The after care after my C-section was pretty much non existent due to severe staff shortages. It was over a year ago and I still feel sad about it