To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

The lack of foresight and planning is also unforgivable.

What does the census every 10 years do, if not to help plan services to meet its population. How can it be a surprise that people live longer. So the government needs to plan to suit its people now and in future.

Was the lack of GPs, doctors leaving the country etc also a shock? No. Again foresight and planning.
That saying Health is Wealth is so true. So why not for example have fully funded doctor and other medical related ‘in need’ university training years ago. And because we need the trained professionals in this country, only accept UK applicants with a proviso that they have to work in the NHS for X years. Ok so universities are businesses, take in a fortune in fees from foreign students, but what, other than government policy and choice, would have stopped them stemming the trend and funding our country’s need, by funding such training. Again planning and using readily available data surely could have shown the big red flag that to do nothing will leave us as we are now.

i can only conclude that it is either incompetence or a choice.

I am also noticing the number of readily available GPs via private health care schemes. Who are these GPs? Presumably those who do split nhs to private work, or who understandably have had to leave the NHS for their own and their family wellbeing. I’m not blaming them but if the had better conditions they would be working for all of us, not just helping the few and contributing to private company profits.

I don’t hold out much hope to be honest with this Labour Party if they get in, it seems that they are relying on the non doms and vat on private schools to pay for everything extra, but hope I’m wrong and they have a more detailed policy awaiting their future manifesto.

thankyou for your insights @AppleLights - it sort of corresponds with the waste and inefficiency I've experienced as a patient. I can never understand why I couldn't return my crutches for instance - now in the garage should me or my family ever need them again. A minor thing perhaps but its this sort of stuff that adds up.

Yes, I'm anxious about me, or anyone infancy needing any emergency medical care. I also worry about the staff currently working in the thick of it, surely they can't take much more?

That said, we had to take my daughter to A&E last June, 40+ temp, floppy really funny turn it was terrifying! And we were seen within an hour, and the nurses/ doctor we saw were amazing! 111 said they would send an ambulance but it would be a really long wait, so we told them we would just drive her.

This is the problem. Eg We need a complete overhaul of IT systems for example and that will not be cheap. There was so much money wasted a few years ago in trying to implement a new computer system. I can’t believe I’m saying this but I would be willing for there to be some kind of low level charge to be instituted. We cannot carry on like this.

I don’t have faith in any particular government to prioritise the NHS.

Historically, Adult Social Services and community home care, as bad as they were, were only feasible because of decades of underpaying the predominantly female staff, and latterly withholding their equal pay settlements. Even now, councils are trying to blame the needs for the settlements on "greedy women" and pointing to that as the reason for their current parlous finances and likely declarations of bankruptcy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/01/they-were-dying-and-theyd-not-had-their-money-britains-multibillion-pound-equal-pay-scandal

We're wasting vast amounts of the healthcare budget accommodating for the lack of social care. That's been known for decades. And it can't be done by exploiting the workforce. They need to be trained, adequately resourced and paid.

I think so too. A low level charge would be better than radical reform which costs

The question on who is exempt would come up as the majority of users might be elderly or low income

Funding is going up, but at half the rate it has in the past.

In real terms the budget is shrinking.

Apparently in our local hospital 83% of patients were seen and admitted within 4 hours in December and only 12 patients waited longer than 12 hours. Category 1 ambulances arrived in an average of 7 minutes and a few seconds. Category 2s were seen just over 40 minutes, which isn't ideal at over double the target but not dreadful.

I've had amazing care from our gp surgery, who organized an emergency out of hours phone appointment within an hour of me calling about breathing trouble that was escalating and wasn't being contained by my inhalers. I had hold of steroids within an hour and a half. They were the pits during covid but have really got their shit together now.

I agree the ambulance issue has sort of always been there. My dad had a major heart attack 16 years ago and the ambulance took 50 minutes to arrive. He was long gone by the time they arrived.

Getting a GP appointment where I live is near impossible. Even if you manage to get one, they rush you out and tell you they’ll only deal with one issue per appointment. Which given how difficult it is to get an appointment, means there can sometimes be more than one issue building up.

Real terms means accounting for inflation. With that it has gone up

If you want it to go up faster the spend is massive already so you’ll have to say where from

The chart below clearly states Covid expenditure.

DM should have probably moved to an assisted living apartment but I completely understand why she wouldn't. Why would she want to move from a house to an apartment with no garden and have to give up her beloved cat as pets aren't allowed? To me there is nothing attractive about being cooped up in a flat after having to give up an animal so maybe there needs to be more thought put into why some people don't want to move.

To all these people who are saying the NHS worked ok under Labour - my memory is that it was better, but far from perfect.

The worst maternity scandals, for example Morecambe Bay, Shrewsbury and Telford, Northwick Park, all occurred either entirely or substantially under Labour.

We need a European-style hybrid system for a rapidly swelling and rapidly ageing population. The NHS system and the US system are two equally undesirable ends of a spectrum. There are many options between that, used all over Europe, with better results.

"We need a European-style hybrid system for a rapidly swelling and rapidly ageing population. The NHS system and the US system are two equally undesirable ends of a spectrum. There are many options between that, used all over Europe, with better results."

And with governments that have consistently invested more than the UK government.

Any switch wouldn't be cost neutral either - not that im necessarily against such a plan. But let's not pretend we will pay less than we pay now.

If you voted Tory, voted in favour of Brexit or were in favour of covid lockdowns then you have zero right to complain about the NHS right now.

It fucks me off when people make patently stupid decisions then whinge about them afterwards. I'm also really embarrassed that my generation seems to incapable of just keeping things running. We're so disorganised, what happened to us???

Health related inflation is running at almost twice the official inflation rate (7.3% vs 4%)

Covid spend didn't really go on hospitals etc.

Money can be released from within the NHS budget by getting rid of the outsourcing element.

Why is MH, Physio & OT in the community delivered (in my area) by a private company who employ NHS staff, using NHS facilities?

Its just privatisation for its own sake, no cost benefit what so ever.

It’s horrendous and getting worse.

As per PPs a lot of the people in my local A&E go because they can’t get a GP appointment or are told by the GP to
go because they need treatment & the GP can’t fit them in.

I needed treatment for a UTI before Xmas. I get them regularly so know the signs even antibiotics are needed. Tried for 2 weeks to get a GP appointment to be told by text it wasn’t urgent, drink water. Started weeing blood with fever & my GP says I need urgent treatment, go to a&e because they can’t see me for 10 days. All they had to do was a 3 minute phone consult in those two weeks, send a prescription to the pharmacy, job done, instead I ended up in a&e for 6 hours feeling like an epic time waster, being scolded for not going to my GP sooner. My surgery is particularly bad but not uncommon. The system no longer works.

Worth looking at -

www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-care-systems-other-countries

There are two reasons why private companies deliver NHS services:

1. Private companies don't have to abide by certain conventions and rules that govern the NHS. That allows less comprehensive, less high quality care to be delivered.
2. It allows people in power to siphon money out of the NHS.

It's the same as school trusts- corruption in plain sight.

OP, you are soooooo right. Unless you experience it you can’t believe how bad it is.
I know I should go to the Dr with a condition I’m suffering with but after the last visit ( overnight stay) Never again
Ive told my family that I will have to be unconscious before I go there again 😡

These countries operate a mainly tax payer funded model (as we do) with employer and employee ins top ups.

However, whatever system is used, it doesn't conjure up staff, health is a people intensive operation.

NHS wasn't helped by removing bursaries for all AHP courses, not just nursing, short term savings, long term costs..... a Tory speciality.