School Detention - Fair?

[WhiteLily1]

My DS age 11 (y7) was in a lesson last week where one pupil was answering the teacher back and two other boys were chatting. The teacher gave the whole class a break time detention for Monday of the following week. DS had not done anything - he said he had been totally silent during the lesson but everyone had the detention.
My DS forgot to go to the detention- it wasn’t on his mind 4 days later, he just totally forgot. He went to apologise to the teacher In question and she gave him a hall lunch time detention for the next day. That involves being escorted to the hall at the start of lunch and sitting on a chair staring at nothing - not allowed to do anything except eat a packed lunch until the end of lunch break.
Unfortunately this was also the day of lunchtime football club which is pretty much all DS looks forward to at school.
For background, DS doesn’t get in trouble at school - his parents evening was good, behaves in class, participates etc. He has had 1 lunch detention before as he forgot his school diary. But that’s it.
I just feel it’s really unfair to give the whole class a collective punishment. Then to double down on that and for DS to miss a whole lunch doing nothing except stare at a wall when the one thing he is passionate about is on. He is really down about it.
AIBU?

The trouble is it’s during school hours so not much you can do.
The school seem to issue detentions over the slightest little thing. Literally - forget one thing once and it’s detention. Even in y7 term 1 when they are learning the ropes.
We live far from the school so unless my DS has done something disruptive or way out of line he won’t be doing any after school detentions or Saturday detentions as the only way to get back from school is me.

Because kids lie. All kids. Doesn't matter how 'good' they are 99% of the time. All kids get swept up in the hoo ha from time to time. And all kids will lie from time to time.

You do not know him inside out. No child is the same around their friends as they are with their parents. Especially not at that age.

Do you actually know it was a whole class detention? Or is that just what you've heard from your son? When you were that age, what would you have told your parents if you didn't want them to know you'd been messing around in class?

And I'm sorry, whose fault is it for misbehaving? An 11/12 year old in y7 is responsible for their own behaviour. If 31 kids were mucking around, it says that there's a hell of a lot of parents that don't value education and haven't taught their children how to behave.

Happened to my child - exactly the same whole class after school detention when my child had literally not done a thing wrong. Had an argument with said teacher & told her under no circumstances that my child is to attend… she told me that she had to.. I said that if she was being held back I’d literally come to the school & collect her myself as she is not a prisoner & that she’s free to leave at anytime after the bell rings at 15:05.

she didn’t attend..

Wow- good on you. I think it’s a disgrace punishing kids because of others actions. Teaches them nothing except not to trust adults who are meant to be in charge / an authority to be fair. We should be teaching young people right from wrong, it to accept blindly if they they think there is an injustice which I think collective punishment is.

That's just so annoying.

DC's school don't do same day detentions. We don't live near the school and I'd be really worried if they weren't home on time (if they had an immediate detention).
So far, we haven't found ourselves in a situation where I've had to intervene but there was a time a couple of months back when the bus broke down, in heavy traffic and they had to get off and walk, and were late.
I contacted school, with screenshots of their chat to me, and from the bus tracker to show what had happened and said that as this was circumstances beyond their control, "I trust there will be no sanctions". There weren't but had a detention been issued I'd have refused to allow them to attend.

Your experience of parenting is clearly different from mine. I have 4 kids and yes, I know them inside out currently. One is a teen. I’m sure as they grow and are out more then that will change but I have been lucky enough to be a SAHM for their entire lives so I’m present and with them every day before school / after school and weekends. I know when they lie and I 100% know that even if he had been lying about mucking around at the start he wouldn’t have been able to keep the lie going when I started talking about possibly emailing the school. He wants me to email as he thinks it’s unfair and doesn’t know why he got given the first detention. He’s asked me to email the school! He would hardly want that if he was lying.
Personally in my immediate family it’s pretty obvious if anyone is lying - kids and husband included- if anyone attempts is someone else will see through it pretty quickly

That’s good! Yes the school don’t give after school detentions without emailing home it’s mainly break and lunch but they seem very frequent over the smallest of things

Agree. Sounds like how prisons are run.

BTW, school is ‘opt-in’ in the UK, you do not have to send your children. Legally they have to receive an education but not necessarily in a school/prison.

I think learning to accept life isn’t always fair is a good lesson. Also the company you keep reflects on you so choose wisely on your school friends, nice kids who buddy up with the wrong ones get led astray.

Also the teacher giving the break time detention would have had to give up the opportunity for their break to be with a class they find difficult. The teacher is not going to want to give up multiple break times for those who forgot, too busy chatting to mates, decided to hang out in the loo etc…. Hence the upscaling to a lunchtime detention which will be covered by someone on duty not the original teacher missing their lunch.

If you are late for a train the train leaves without you, if you miss a concert you can’t just rock up the following day and ask to waltz in without paying again……same goes for detention, you miss it doesn’t mean the easiest route or cheapest ticket is available to you it’s just life.

Did he ask the teacher at the point at which they said they’d have to do a lunchtime one to avoid a particular day? A reasonable teacher of a truly blameless child would have moved it back a day.

Because some people are still of the old-age mindset that school staff must be believed at all costs and that an adult must be believed over a child purely because of their lack of years. There’s a term for this:adultism.

I wouldn’t want my kid at that school OP it sounds like a prison camp. I’m guessing it’s an academy. Genuinely makes me sick to my stomach reading all that.

The people in charge are sadists. Don’t put your son through it - he will have a miserable time at secondary. Are there any other schools near you?

My DD got a whole class detention a few years ago during the first term of Y7. I noticed on the behaviour policy on the website that it said they were not to be used and there happened to be a school coffee morning so I went along and happened to ask the Head of Year whether they were policy or not because my DD had received one, he said they weren't supposed to be used and she didn't get one again so I presume the teachers were reminded not to. So I would go to Head of Year and ask if whole class detentions are their policy and what their reasoning is for them.

@Maray1967 don't you think both your kids getting a detention for forgetting a protractor is ridiculous?!

What is that teaching them except how to have anxiety every day that they don’t have something?

What would happen in the real world - you would borrow one.

You can’t normalise something which is completely wrong. I would expect this from a religious cult not a UK secondary school.

We live in a grammar area and my son didn’t pass. The only other school that’s not grammar is awful 😢 This one is rated outstanding but is extremely strict on all areas including uniform and equipment. Some of it works well but other times it’s just too harsh IMO

I suspect there is more to the first detention than he is telling you.

I see @WhiteLily1.

I would write in and say your son won’t be attending the lunch time detention because it’s not appropriate or proportionate. He’s a good student and did nothing wrong in the original situation.

If they have an issue they can speak to you. However, if they do force your son to attend this you will be writing to the local MP and paper about collective punishment and the ridiculous escalations for good students. I would definitely mention the other student who was off sick.

WTAF???? That is LUDICROUS!!!

@ReadingSoManyThreads isnt if!! If true then the school is actually insane. They are then punishing him (harshly)for being sick.

I really do think this is appalling (I'm a former teacher, never ever dished out whole class punishments).

I'd be making a complaint, and making it very clear that this was not acceptable.

As a home educating parent now, these posts (of which there are plenty) are really great advertisements for home education. Not once have I ever regretted that decision!

Are you sure the whole class got a detention? Iv not known that to happen at c’s school (could be wrong)
however I think some of the reasons for detentions are stupid I personally do t think they make any difference. Very outdated

I highly disagree that ‘it teaches kids that life sometimes isn’t fair’.

They aren’t stupid, they will figure that out and will experience many other things in life to show them that.

But punishing a kid when they have done nothing wrong is bullying. Neither kids or adults should be taught to put up with bullying.

I was bullied in the workplace by my manager, I would report it to HR. Not sit there and think ‘oh life isn’t fair sometimes’.

I think next time Op, as soon as something like that happens again, you intervene immediately. You speak to the school to get their side, and if they also confirm your kid wasn’t being disruptive, you explain he won’t be doing detention and you call the teacher out for bullying.

So, the naughty kids in the class have punished their quiet classmates by default.
That system seems extreme and unfair and hopefully the kids who muck up have learnt a painful lesson.

If your son doesn't notice much better behaviour in his class mates from now on, you should go to the senior principal and discuss the whole discipline strategy. Make a formal complaint if they don't back down from punishing the entire class when a few misbehave.

Your son will have to do the detention on this occasion. Though I would write a letter to the Principal about it.

I wondered that at first but he seems to think it’s really unfair and when I suggested emailing in he was all for it, which I don’t think he would be if there was more to it and he had done wrong. The whole class did get a detention - I know as I have spoken to a few other parents who said the same

our french teacher did this back in 1977, so that's memorable

Never forget another pupil carved my name into the table and my family had to PAY for a new table even though other student admitted to it.

Life at secondary school is just weird.