School Detention - Fair?

[WhiteLily1]

My DS age 11 (y7) was in a lesson last week where one pupil was answering the teacher back and two other boys were chatting. The teacher gave the whole class a break time detention for Monday of the following week. DS had not done anything - he said he had been totally silent during the lesson but everyone had the detention.
My DS forgot to go to the detention- it wasn’t on his mind 4 days later, he just totally forgot. He went to apologise to the teacher In question and she gave him a hall lunch time detention for the next day. That involves being escorted to the hall at the start of lunch and sitting on a chair staring at nothing - not allowed to do anything except eat a packed lunch until the end of lunch break.
Unfortunately this was also the day of lunchtime football club which is pretty much all DS looks forward to at school.
For background, DS doesn’t get in trouble at school - his parents evening was good, behaves in class, participates etc. He has had 1 lunch detention before as he forgot his school diary. But that’s it.
I just feel it’s really unfair to give the whole class a collective punishment. Then to double down on that and for DS to miss a whole lunch doing nothing except stare at a wall when the one thing he is passionate about is on. He is really down about it.
AIBU?

There is no reason for that. Its not something I can imagine happening at our school.

It will be on the website. I am a teacher and don’t give blanket punishments. However, I do deal with parents daily whose child has done no wrong and the teacher is lying. It’s exhausting.
I'm not sure when, for a small number of parents, it became a them and us. For the parents who are willing to listen and discuss, the relationship is much stronger and everyone benefits. I would ask questions first - not lay down the law.

That seems ridiculous to punish the whole class for 3 kids' behaviour. Surely every single class would constantly have detention if one person chatted back (which they always do). Madness. I've never heard such things, maybe in the Army or something!

I would not trust them implicitly. I would not automatically jump to presume the teacher was in the wrong but I do not trust anyone implicitly when it comes to the care of my child. If your child is upset because of how they have been treated by an adult then you should be listening to them.

This is perfect. I am all for supporting the school until they dish out a disproportionate or inappropriate punishment at which time it's the time to advocate for your child. I had to do it once because they wanted to issue a public internal exclusion to an already bullied child as "humiliation is part of the punishment". Er no. We reached a more appropriate compromise.

He is lying

You are very naive. I support the school. But the school is made up of multiple individuals who make mistakes and are of varying quality. Like everywhere. They make mistakes and do things wrong at times. Sometimes you need to step in and advocate for your child. I also suspect that you don't have any children with SEND!

The initial whole class punishment wasn't fair. The idea is that the bad ones will behave if everyone is mad at them but very rarely happens or that they give a shit, plus it's punitive and creates bad feeling towards the teacher.

What I don't get is how he forgot to go though? Did he tell you he had one? Surely he would have noticed when his whole class were heading off to the detention?! Even if they are in different sets, enough of them would be in each class for it to be a thing - 'urgh we've got mr twatbag's detention now' ?

Bet he doesn't 'forget' to attend a detention again.

I'm a secondary teacher and our behaviour policy doesn't allow whole class detentions like this. I agree that they are unfair and tbh I think they're a lazy option for punishments because it avoids targeting and dealing with students who are actually disruptive.

I would never encourage people not to advocate for their child - it is extremely important especially when there is SEND involved.
However, I would encourage you to come at things with a very open mind, particularly if your child's need includes rigid thinking or difficultly seeing something from another perspective.
Listen to your child but also listen to the people both adult and children around them because what a child, and particularly one with SEND, genuinely sees as a true version of events can sometimes (not all the time) be very far from it.

I think there's a message here that sometime you get caught up in things you don't intend to. It isn't always possible to "protest your innocence" and the safer course of action might to just take the mild punishment on the chin and move on.

I think the follow up "discipline" was fine. Your child was given a punishment and didn't attend; the punishment for that is bigger than the initial punishment; and so on and so on. Same as real life really - fine for inadvertently using a bus lane is £60 but punishment for not paying is £100 and punishment for not paying that is points/prison. Just the way of life, and you do your kids Jo favours by saying that they don't deserve the punishment do they don't have to do it.

About what? That he did nothing wrong or that the whole class had a detention? He told me about the class detention last week the day it happened

Imagine if 3 cars in front of you used a bus lane. You didn’t and used the normal lane. You got a £100 fine anyway because the 3 people near you used it. Would you pay it?

This is what I think. Really discouraging as my son now says what the point? You get a detention anyway. It also creates a huge divide between those that are disruptive because my son is angry at the others couldn’t stop talking or that one girl was answering the teacher back. How about reinforcing and rewarding good behaviour rather than always being punitive, even to those who are trying to listen and focus

He wouldn’t have forgotten on purpose trust me. He would know that would be a lunch time detention and he’s very scared of the teachers.

No, I think it’s far better to say ‘ oh dear, that’s tough, but just get on with it’ - you're doing your DC a bigger service in the long run. If you blow it up into a huge issue about unfairness you’re not helping your DC learn about the world. I’ve seen too many students who can’t cope if things don’t run smoothly- far better to learn some resilience over very small issues. Detentions don’t seem to mean what they once did - no one got a detention in the 80s for not having a protractor that day - both of mine have. I would have been in massive trouble at home if I’d had a detention- it’s not the same now.

Yes I guess you are right. Just feels a bit unfair and in my view if schools are noting else, they should treat children with care, compassion and fairness.
but not worth blowing it up I guess.

I would find out what’s happened from the teacher point of view having listened to my child’s and then I’d explain to the teacher & head of year how it has affected my child - what’s done is done but at least by sharing your viewpoint and your child’s you’ve given him a voice and in future they might be a bit more reasonable. I hate when parents have the attitude of “not my child, absolutely not my child” because very often the child is no more of a saint than any other human beings I know. But having said that, I absolutely DETEST how many people view teenagers as guilty until proven innocent. I have one child I know can be gobby and another who I’m regularly told “we wish we could clone, his personality and mannerism is a true credit to yourself- he’s amazing”.
Obviously even with the latter example, I know he’s not perfect and I’d always welcome both sides of the story before passing judgment. Sometimes kids get in with the wrong crowd or have a very temporary lapse of judgment. If he’s overall a very good kid and is always praised, awesome, hopefully he’s told you the truth. No harm in enquiring before passing judgement either way.

Collective punishment is quite rightly regarded as shit practice, and if you're still doing it you're a disgrace. It's lazy and unprofessional. If you're not competent enough to know who the miscreants are, that's your failure. You don't just punish every child in the vicinity because you dropped the ball.

Number of times I've given detentions for things like talking/messing around when the child swears they weren't, when I have seen/heard them right in front of me.

Secondary school pupils don't tell their parents the whole truth. Quite often they don't recognise the whole truth (so not necessarily their fault they're not telling the whole truth). Children/teenagers are well known for protesting "it's not fair!".

Make sure your son learns his lesson for messing around/skipping a detention or home school.

I’m really surprised anyone is still doing whole class detentions. I thought they went out at least 15 years ago.

sureky the rest ofthe ckass were going, so how did he forget?

Agree. The naughty kids don't give a shit.

I'd have refused to let him attend the detention in the first place. He didn't do anything wrong, so his behaviour didn't deserve punishing.

Yes, I am that parent.

Why do people assume he’s lying? Do you not know when your child lies because it’s extremely obvious when mine tries to. I knew him inside out - he’s only 11 so not spending time alone or in the teen phase yet.
The whole class got a detention. Literally everyone. 31 kids. They wernt all mucking around! And even if they were, what on Earth does that say about the teaching?