If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

[AgathaCrispee]

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

Yeah, they’re still not going to address your niche concern and draw attention to something that no one sane thinks is going to happen.

As it should be, otherwise it's just attacking "the wealthy" or rich - whatever their definition of that is. Everyone should be treated fairly. If everyone is paying VAT, it should mean everyone without exception.
Tuition is tuition whether it's private school or university.

I would say they should go as far as taxing for piano / music lessons, football coaching, ballet classes etc. It should all be booked via a government portal and taxed right away.

I’ve pointed out multiple times that the real risk to the cost of university education is the fee cap. But instead various posters have chosen to indulge in flights of fantasy around how legislation is drafting accidentally causing a VAT on fees. It’s mad.

Op isn’t saying that Labour are intending for this to happen. She’s saying that unless they are very clear on any change in the criteria, private schools may use the fact that Uni’s are categorised in the same way in terms of VAT exemption to query why they are being forced to pay VAT and uni’s aren’t.

I think it’s a valid question tbh.

THIS 🙁

It will be the case that parents need to save from birth in case their children want to go to university or hope their kids can get bursaries.

I think there are a few lawyers on this thread, so hoping you can answer this one.

If the ISC decides to mount a legal challenge against changes to VAT exemptions (if they try to apply it private schools in isolation) what process would they follow? who would hear the case?

Honestly the idea that it might happen my accident is even more ridiculous. Look, I think politicians are useless at the best of times, but the notion that they’re going to introduce another £3bn of tax because they didn’t read the small print is preposterous.

The Labour Party have already illustrated that they don’t understand basic VAT law (they suggested that removing charitable status was going to lead to VAT being payable). It took them a while to realise that it wouldn’t. Given the lack of basic understanding, it’s not unreasonable to question whether or not university fees would be captured (inadvertently or otherwise), especially as the VAT exemption for universities is in the same part of the VAT rules as private schools.

Thanks.

Can I ask some more questions? Given your distrust of Labour plans, I’m assuming you don’t like the Labour Party as a whole. Would you consider yourself a Conservative supporter?

And do you mind me asking if your political preferences have changed over your life time?

I mean it’s pretty unreasonable, but obviously people are free to say what they like on the internet free from the burdens of having to be sensible.

I’m sure Bridget and Co all wish they hadn’t gone down the charitable status track from an optics perspective, but they are basically achieving their goal regardless.

Forgive my jumping in, but I can answer that question just by reading the thread.

Op already said she's a floating voter, so she doesn't consider herself a Conservative supporter and her political preferences have obviously changed over her lifetime.

No, I have never voted Conservative.

I'm a floating voter between Green and Labour.

I don't trust Labour anymore sadly, even though I'm an active member of a union.

When they let us down badly on supporting women's rights I've started to question everything they're putting out. They need to be specific and clear on what they are saying, or we'll end up in a deeper mess.

Well they didn't read the small print before declaring that they would remove charitable status did they?
That's why people are querying it because they seem to announce flagship policies without any prior due diligence. That's why people are sceptical. It is embarrassing when you remember that Starmer is a lawyer.

I missed that, thank you

Actually no, you can't answer on behalf of another poster. Precisely because you have a pre-conceived notion that they must be Tory. You realise many Labour voters don't agree with the policy either?

The Labour Party (and media) suggested that removing charitable status would lead to VAT being payable. They went on and on about it. That was factually incorrect. It’s not unreasonable to question whether or not the latest plan is also based on inaccuracies, or whether it will lead to consequences they haven’t thought about. Why are people so sure that this latest plan will achieve what they want it to, when the previous plans were proved unworkable? Why are people so sure that it’s different this time; that this plan is bullet proof, when the other two plans were a shambolic mess?

I thought that it might be linked to Labours stance on woman’s rights.

Am I right that as a union member, and with your voting history, you would consider yourself left wing? I’m guessing that Labours position on self-Id is therefore much more upsetting to you than if you’d always identified with right wing parties.

Well yeah, one’s a policy position and the other is a piece of legislation that goes through multiple readings.

I wish I could give them the same credit but the entire ‘We’ll just remove the charitable status of private schools’ climbdown hasn’t filled me with confidence. It’s also not that long ago that politicians were following around a bus emblazoned with slogans about the oodles of money that would be available to spend on the NHS after Brexit.

This is another headline grabbing vote winner, nothing more. There is no policy or precedent behind this and private schools will undoubtedly fight back. They need to have covered all bases and it’s blatantly obvious that as yet that hasn’t been done.

Precisely. The current plan is still a policy position. It’s not unreasonable to question whether a policy position is workable, especially when it seems to be one of the only policies as things stand.

The issue is that trust is lost about their capability.
As a lifelong Labour voter I won't be voting Labour. Not just on this issue but it highlights that they are more interested in the populist vote and perpetuating UsVThem than they are about sensible, well thought out policies. It isn't the Labour that I believe in.

That's probably a whole other thread!

I do think if you support a party you need to hold their feet to the fire to be specific in what they are advocating and point out weaknesses or inconsistencies.

We shrug our shoulders and lull ourselves back to sleep politically by saying 'of course they won't do that', when sometimes they create that very situation inadvertently by hedging their bets.

This could be a huge own goal if they are not clear in what they are doing.

Some of them still think this . Then there was their science and tech spokesman on Times radio yesterday who said that the policy was about making independent schools pay VAT on their purchases like state schools have to. This is rubbish , state schools reclaim their VAT through either a s126 for academies or s 33 for LEA schools . In comparison independent schools pay VAT on their purchases and h fee this policy will now. Enable to reclaim. Incidentally this will benefit the big rich schools who build swimming pools and theatres but not the smaller less rich schools whose main cost is teachers salaries.

another Labour MP yesterday on the radio called the fact that there is no VAT on school fees a tax deductible …, what ? They also keep conflating charitable status and VAT rather than understanding that it’s the nature of the supply not the supplier which determines VAT status , hence the whole Jaffa cake scenario.

I will still vote Labour but Keir really needs to get them some training on the basics . Frankly the media don’t understand it either but sooner or later someone will start grilling them .

No

Your question is “is it workable to find some form of wording the distinguishes between private schools and universities”? We can all debate what unreasonable means, but again while I don’t have the highest opinion of politicians, this does not strike me as even remotely a challenge in avoiding accidentally implementing a £3bn tax hike.