If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

[AgathaCrispee]

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

what actual insight do you have

both siblings in private sector and they don’t think like that about the children they teach and they have a spine - so would never be pushed by anyone to change their employer to appease someone else’s view on what is the “right thing to do”

https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labours-plan-for-schools/

• A strong core of literacy and numeracy alongside access to sports and arts subjects

Note “ARTS” subjects

Teacher votes matter and what is promised matters. It has to seem plausible and properly funded.

Many may actually think their protégés are spoilt brat rich kids

do you think many working in private heath are think the same about their patients?

@shewasrooting - the whole teaching profession is seen as Labour voters on the whole although they lost some votes in the last general election.

https://teachertapp.co.uk/articles/labour-party-policies-ranked-comparative-judgement/

Where are the disagreements?A. Taxing Private SchoolsThe only policy with significant disagreement between some teachers is the private school taxation policy.
Labour has repeatedly said they wish to charge VAT on all private school fees and end exemptions from business rates.
Researchers disagree on the consequences of this policy. The Institute of Fiscal Studies says it could raise over £1.3bn. EDSK is less convinced.
Private school teachers were much less in favour of the tax charges than the average teacher. They ranked it last place (15th) out of all the policies. Conservative-voting teachers also placed the policy last.
Both of these groups are relatively small within the teaching profession – around 7% of teachers work in the private sector, and only 3% of teachers said they expected to vote Conservative at the next election.

did you go state school throughout @Araminta1003 out of interest?

I went to a state primary, state grammar and private sixth form because my parents had to work abroad at that point.

I am not partisan at this point. Just trying to understand the debate. Here is the EDSK report again

https://www.edsk.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/EDSK-Private-matters.pdf

If you look at Recommendation 1 that is where I currently stand. Too many legal and financial risks associated with these policies.

there’s not a huge amount to “understand”

It is not just a question of morality or workability though it is also a simple question of Maths. If administering it becomes more expensive than the cash it generates it is not worth it,

Only of course if you believe that the purpose of taxation is to raise funds for public services. There are plenty of activists among the Labour party who see this as a way to "soak the rich", they don't care if it produces no revenue.

@shewasrooting “there’s not a huge amount to “understand””

OK so explain it to us in simple terms in one paragraph please. So that the common man on the street can understand all the nuances.

the exact question?

If VAT is added on private school fees, will it definitely just be “private schools” and what does that even mean? Or is there a risk that it will extend to other types of education in its broadest sense?

so in terms of what to “understand”?

A. wait and see. All just rather pointless speculation until then. The devil is in the detail which will come in due time 🤷‍♀️

This kind of stuff - will it definitely not be caught? https://www.rcm.ac.uk/junior/rcmjdapply/rcmjdfeesandfunding/

Like someone said, who can even afford that? It is elite and educational and expensive but clearly it is not full time. But this one is full time:

https://chethamsschoolofmusic.com/

A. wait and see. All just rather pointless speculation until then. The devil is in the detail which will come in due time 🤷‍♀️

Yes, but you see the trustees at the local music conservatoire are a bit worried. Whether they need to pay some tax advisor and at what point etc. And how much notice will they be given if it is meant to go in the first budget?

how can you “understand” something
that is all just speculation at this point

you ca speculate about various “somethings” and what the detail may be and the consequent implications but you can’t “understand” something that doesn’t exist

indeed

but that is life generally before a general election.

@shewasrooting really? I bet private schools have dished out thousands on tax advisors to try and “understand”. Apparently some are already taking staff out of TPS because they are worried. Is that all just speculation? So these schools run by trustees need not at least try and plan ahead?
I mean I guess there was no point trying to plan ahead for Brexit either. That is why it ended up being such a mess. Because of the uncertainty and people running around like headless chickens and nobody really in charge.

And I guess all schools are used to it due to Covid, I mean there was one rule in the morning from the DFE and a next by the evening and one school in one borough/LA could be located next to another school geographically, but in a different LA and have a different rule imposed by the LA last minute. So we have experience of last minute muddling along due to crazy last minute rules imposed by someone in power randomly, all of us.

well if you have the funds, then in inevitable times of uncertainty, certainly sensible to being in tax advisors to provide professional advice on the implications of various “somethings”

No you aren't.

After the 14 year shitshow we have had from this corrupt, immoral, greedy government, we have seen public services and public spending decimated while at the same time they have poured billions of public monies into the pockets of Tory cronies, creating more millionaires and billionaires than in any other 10 year period in our history and pushing more families into poverty that in any other 10 year period.
We have a housing crisis, an environmental crisis, an NHS at death's door. They have worsened every single aspect of our economy. Our Education system is unfit for purpose because of their appalling curriculum changes.
They have damaged provision for women, children, the sick, the elderly, and people with special needs. They have shown themselves to be racist, sexist, immoral, corrupt and driven by capitalism. We are in a lower place in the world in every single measure now than 14 years ago and there is not a single country that admires what we do. We're a joke.
Anyone who calls themselves a 'floating voter' and would even consider voting Tory in this election is a Tory at heart- selfish, greedy for wealth above anything else and small-minded.

“After the 14 year shitshow we have had from this corrupt, immoral, greedy government, we have seen public services and public spending decimated while at the same time they have poured billions of public monies into the pockets of Tory cronies, creating more millionaires and billionaires than in any other 10 year period in our history and pushing more families into poverty that in any other 10 year period.
We have a housing crisis, an environmental crisis, an NHS at death's door. They have worsened every single aspect of our economy. Our Education system is unfit for purpose because of their appalling curriculum changes.
They have damaged provision for women, children, the sick, the elderly, and people with special needs. They have shown themselves to be racist, sexist, immoral, corrupt and driven by capitalism. We are in a lower place in the world in every single measure now than 14 years ago and there is not a single country that admires what we do. We're a joke.
Anyone who calls themselves a 'floating voter' and would even consider voting Tory in this election is a Tory at heart- selfish, greedy for wealth above anything else and small-minded.”

So why can we not at least try and go back and build on our ties with the EU which did work previously? Why can we not make that something to look forward to? We cannot undo Covid but we can undo Brexit somewhat? Why don’t we beat them with that they did to our country?

And how many floating voters are there numerically in this country? There are many otherwise elections would not keep shifting from one party to the other.

“Both the 2015 and 2017 General Elections saw more people change their vote than ever before, with nearly half the country (49%) voting for different parties across the three elections from 2010-17. The BES – the leading survey of voting patterns in the UK – has identified an historic trend in which voters have become less loyal or partisan, and provides a new explanation for that trend.

It found that voters are hugely influenced by unique events or issues it describes as “electoral shocks”. Examples include the 2008 economic crash, the 2010-15 coalition government, the rise in immigration, the Scottish referendum and – most critically in the current moment – Brexit.”

https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/press-release-most-volatile-british-electorate-in-modern-times/#.Xdp4BDL7QWo

There appears to be a MN myth that you are a Tory or Labour etc - which is just not born out by the facts.

49%!
I am confident the Labour Party will win this election unless they do something terrible to mess it up somehow. But let’s not pretend once a Tory always a Tory, once Labour, always Labour, very disingenous.

No you aren't.

@Araminta1003 you are right and pp incorrect

There are people who switch, which is why landslides happen