If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

[AgathaCrispee]

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

“Remember that, even if the wording is not completely precise and might arguably cover some non-school educational services, there is nobody who will actually want to make that argument in court. “

OK but you know what trustees of charities are like they will want clear cut advice from professionals stating no VAT has to be charged. They need to know that for sure as they won’t take on the roll if there are legal risks.

Goldenbear - The IFS believes 18% of students aged 16-19 are in the private system. Even if you assume the top 10% are the right kind of people. That’s still 8% that you penalise and hit harder.

that 8% are probably already contributing significantly to the tax burden and even likely have private healthcare.

If 5 of the 18 have to leave and go to the state system where does that money and places come from? Then what happens to the teachers that will be paying PAYE, none of this is taken into account properly in the papers that Labour are saying make sense.

Ps. To be in the top 10% you need to earn £60,000 before tax

average fees for a day school are around £20,000 already.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

Someone is scaremongering.

This has been a Party Political Broadcast by the Tory Party.

Nursing and midwifery apprenticeships still involve teaching of theory which takes place in a uni. Apprenticeship or university student, the degree is made up of 50% theory and 50% practice. Where else are they getting taught the theory they need?

I’m sure the government COULD choose to start levying VAT on all kinds of educational services going forward. They will not choose to do so, because doing so would be very unpopular.

See also: there is nothing to stop the government levying VAT on kids’ shoes, in the same way it already does for adult shoes. It chooses not to. Because doing so would be unpopular.

user1477391263 - and the levy on education is only popular because of avarice and not because it makes sense.

not everyone goes to university or uses a nursery school, I therefore think it is just as valid to charge VAT on universities and nursery schools. Therefore they should just stop playing with young peoples lives in this way and u-turn.

Thesmokinggnu

It’s only 5.9% of children in private education up to 16. It apparently jumps up for Alevels. A fraction of 5.9% which by is what we’re looking at will be easy to absorb. The kids above 16 will just end up in big sixth form colleges the rest of us are in. Spread across the country. It’s so not a problem to sort. A tiny number are privately educated. A tiny number will need to move- across the whole country. It’s so not an issue and just Tory scaremongering.

Ditto the VAT on uni. Tory scaremongering and parents pissed off that nobody cares re them overstretching themselves to pay for private education. A system that disadvantages the rest of the country’s children.

What your post?

Regarding the higher percentage of Sixth Formers in private schools why is this? Parents thinking best time to invest? Or is it the cohort going through from when fees were still more affordable?

The younger years will now be incentivised to go state at Sixth Form. There will be a knock on effect on unis in MML courses, Classics, Humanities, Music - the courses with higher ex private school pupils on them. Private schools still encourage this.

Our grammar struggles to get pupils to do those types of A levels. Is there going to be forward planning so those are offered at large Sixth Form Colleges? So some students still take those A levels and will still study that at uni?

Fewer DC in Sixth Form than at school when CSA.

Some move in to private sector at that point, probably more than leave it (only a few sixth form colleges attract pupils away from the independent sector)

So the fraction is different because the denominator is different, not sure of the raw numbers.

But the proportion in independent sixth forms has stayed pretty consistent - the figure bandied about has been the (rounded) 20% for years. And I'd expected it to reduce after the raising of the participation age, with more pupils opting to stay on and state sector expanding with demand

I think the sixth form thing must vary, but in my area the state schools dont have sixth forms. The only option is a big college shared across a whole borough. The idea being it makes more economic sense and can offer bigger range of subjects and become experts in that age. Its actually quite a treck for some students.

Its enourmous and quite a different environment than school. You are supposed to just get on with things. So some people who would do better in a more smaller school environment, with more structured learning feel they need to pay to go to a school sixth form.

“Regarding the higher percentage of Sixth Formers in private schools why is this?”

Parents wanting a bit of the unfair advantages the privately educated enjoy with education at A level and UCAS( connections etc)

I wouldn’t worry about music courses. You need to be well off to pay for music lessons for years that will enable doing a music degree. It’s already elitest. And re humanities. Families are struggling to keep their kids at uni, for those kids paying back fees( not the rich who have parents funding the lot) they need to pick Alevels and degrees that give them a good wage in sectors that need a workforce. I’m not sure humanities is that.

@meditrina - i see what you mean. From my sons state school, quite a lot of pupils left after GCSE to go and work (apprentiships) in all sorts, care work, hairdressing, motor mechanics, IT. Whereas i assume thats very unusual for children in the private sector so they become a bigger part of the a level studying cohort.

Yes and many nhs hospitals have stopped offering the apprenticeships.

Of course you are, dear.

“I wouldn’t worry about music courses. You need to be well off to pay for music lessons for years that will enable doing a music degree. It’s already elitest. And re humanities. Families are struggling to keep their kids at uni, for those kids paying back fees( not the rich who have parents funding the lot) they need to pick Alevels and degrees that give them a good wage in sectors that need a workforce. I’m not sure humanities is that.”

Our state school is worried about this. Every governors’ meeting comments on not enough students picking those subjects. Our local music trust does all they can to offer free music lessons in schools to poorer children especially those on FSM for as long as they want to take them. I completely disagree that these courses are not important. I mean if we are going to get the richer kids back into the state sector then we should be making sure they still take those courses? I know the arts and then music world are elitist but they will die if they are not fed by the next generation.
And if you read any dystopia then let’s face it, we need the arts.

What is clear from these threads is that there are a number of people using state and private schools and often only using private schools for a few years for specific reasons. So are we really sure the voter base is as small as the Labour Party think?
Also, if there is an argument of affecting the creative circles, arts/music/ballet etc - these tend to be Labour voters. This stuff needs clarifying, including positive and negative impacts on unis.

every single parent with a child at private school and grandparent with a grandchild at private school will turn out to vote.

Given how appalling voter turn out is in this country, particularly if the weather is not kind, that is a compelling thought IMO

The majority would be Tory voters anyway and would never in a million years switch to labour.

Not everyone is wedded to one party.

Paellaaaa · Today 10:35

The majority would be Tory voters anyway and would never in a million years switch to labour.

You think private school teachers are Tory voters? Do you know any?!

private school teacher
are paid better
better work life balance
better supported

they chose to work private for both pull AND push reasons

the fact this is their profession may override other sentiments in their voting

@shewasrooting - private school teachers is an interesting question. They are basically being pushed back towards the state sector to do the “right thing”. Many may actually think their protégés are spoilt brat rich kids and their parents should pay up more… but then they may be turkeys voting for Christmas if they actually vote Labour and lose their jobs (if they like their jobs). It is a difficult question and I think they are probably the biggest victims in all of this. In the top private schools the teachers often have far more benefits than their salaries, they have houses and massive discounts for their own kids. I doubt anyone would give that up.