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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - or are the Faraway Tree books utterly insane?

189 replies

BaleOfHay · 31/01/2024 07:28

I've started reading these to DD5 at bedtime and they are making my head hurt. I'm all for a bit of magic (we've just finished the Worst Witch) and I loved Enid Blyton a a child (Famous 5) but the Faraway Tree makes me want to scream and throw it out of the window. Is it just me?

OP posts:
Creepybookworm · 31/01/2024 12:09

I loved these books as a child and loved that their childhood were nothing like my working class 1970s one. I didn't like secret seven or famous five though. I remember the one I had was about a dustman nicking dogs and remember thinking 'of course it would be'.

Acatdance · 31/01/2024 12:18

TheKeatingFive · 31/01/2024 11:58

We lost interest in the wishing chair though. The characters aren't anything like as good.

The Wishing Chair was originally a magazine serial story, which I think explains why it's weaker in book form than The Faraway Tree - it's a series of standalone episodes strung together with no real character development. In the Faraway Tree, the children do learn lessons in the course of the story which are character-building.

MargaretThursday · 31/01/2024 12:19

AnglepoisePond · 31/01/2024 10:44

I would personally choose to add an introduction and republish unchanged, but EB is often repellently classist, sexist and racist.

One which I know has had alterations made in a reissue is The Island of Adventure, which reads quite weirdly if you don’t know it’s been altered. Originally the villain is the black servant Jo-Jo, who is a caricature — violent, threatening, strong, but also shiftless, lazy, cowardly, ignorant and superstitious, bossed around like a child by his employer, his race referenced all the time, speaking a kind of patois possibly intended to be Caribbean, always ‘rolling his eyes’ so the white show when afraid.

(In the reissue, he’s Jo, no race mentioned, and ‘big’ has been substituted for ‘black’ throughout, but he’s still speaking the same way, so he makes no ‘sense’ as a character precisely because he’s no longer an unpleasant stereotype.)

In The Secret Mountain, there’s an African child, Mufumu, who is a piccaninny stereotype, comic, fuzzy-haired, ignorant and unwaveringly loyal to the white saviour children, his worship of one of them (sleeping at his feet, decorating him with flowers) played for laughs.

In The Mountain of Adventure, there’s a black American paratrooper whose ‘thick lips’, ‘woolly hair’ and black face keep being referenced, and who continually talks about himself in the third person as a ‘poor n——’ who is ‘afraid of dem bad mens’.

I read these to DS and we talked about this stuff, as we did about Anne in the Famous Five, and George’s desire to be a boy being entirely understandable in a fictional world where girls are supposed to want to make the beds in the cave hideout rather than spy on smugglers. Or why the working-class child in the Five Find Outers ‘naturally’ has tea in the kitchen with the servants while others have it in their playroom, and why his manners are continually ticked off or praised by the others, and his poetry mocked.

But I couldn’t blame anyone who didn’t want to read this stuff to their non-white child.

Edited

I think though this sort of thing has a place in the history to show that it was considered acceptable. The fact that this sort of language was used, by the people who would have been seen at the time as morally right shows how ingrained it was. By removing all aspects of this, then we're denying it happened for our benefit because we don't want to admit to it, like a child who throws the empty wrapper in the bin in the hope that it won't be spotted. The casual racism that was rife caused as much damage because it effects how people think
In order to address the damage it has caused, we need to admit it has happened and face up to it.
I'm not sure a children's book is where to do it, but if children understand how attitudes were wrong in the past, and to stand up to attitudes in the future that still need challenging.

Like you, I would prefer there to be something explaining how this is of its time and how attitudes have changed. Reading things like that have given rise to great conversations with my children over the years.

I'm not sure why Enid Blyton has been tarnished so much when most other authors would have been similar in that era. Think of the objections when Roald Dahl was recently updated. Enid Blyton has had similar, and at times far less sympathetic, updating since the 1990s at least.
I can't think of any non-white characters in Noel Streatfield, for example, except the servant in their Aunt's house in America, in The Painted Garden, and she, again is a bit of a caricature. I've never heard anyone complaining though.
In that era writers did tend to write about the white middle class, because it was regarded that that was who read them, so they wanted to read about people like themselves.

I read these to DS and we talked about this stuff, as we did about Anne in the Famous Five, and George’s desire to be a boy being entirely understandable in a fictional world where girls are supposed to want to make the beds in the cave hideout rather than spy on smugglers. Or why the working-class child in the Five Find Outers ‘naturally’ has tea in the kitchen with the servants while others have it in their playroom, and why his manners are continually ticked off or praised by the others, and his poetry mocked.

I'm going to pull this paragraph out a little. As a rather girlie-girl in the 80s, who liked her dresses, dolls and thought the best bit of Five Run Away together was the making of the cave into a home, I found it very difficult to hear Anne dismissed as a character. It was like saying my interests and what I liked doing was wrong. I felt I was judged for liking those things. By saying it was entirely understandable you are saying that Anne was wrong for liking those things.

And if you read FF like that, you see that Anne is quite a character. Yes, she prefers a quiet trip, without adventures. But she stays with them most of the time, she's brave. She doesn't give up. She stands with the rest of them when it counts, even though she's scared, and on at least one occasion is the one that says they need to keep going. If anything you could say she is braver, because she keeps going when she's scared. Why shouldn't she say she enjoys being a girl if she does?

And the working-class child isn't one of the FFOs. Ern, the policeman's (PC Goon) nephew, comes into a few mysteries and again more than holds his own. He does normally eat with the rest of them in the playroom.
The time I think you're thinking of, is when he runs away from Goon because of mistreatment and Fatty hides him at his house. It's better he eats with the cook (who thinks he's great) because, although Fatty's Mum is sort of aware that he's doing something, he hasn't told her anything beyond "it's a good deed" so he's not going to want his parents to know Ern's there, because they might have felt duty bound to tell Goon.
His poetry is mocked no more than they tease each other, but he does want to keep on reading his "pomes" out to them, so he obviously didn't find it too bad. The only time I remember his manners being commented on particularly was when he meets the Mrs Hilton (Pip and Bet's mum who's known to be very strict on manners) and she tells him off for wearing a hat indoors-but we can guarantee she'd have said the same to any of the boys.

Ern's a very interesting character. Because he's the nephew of their enemy, but wants to go round with them he is very much the outsider pushing his way into an established group, so you'd expect them to be suspicious. As Fatty is in the first book, and I'd say they are far ruder about him trying to join up with them.
But Ern and Fatty both earn their respect by their bravery in their first books, and after that they are delighted to welcome them and very much become one of the group.

There are plenty of good working-class characters in Enid Blyton's books.
Ern is one of them, but there's also Barney in the R-mystery series, who really is the main character. And what about Jimmy and Lotta in the Circus books, Andy in the Adventurous Four and Jack in the Secret series. All of those are really the leaders of the books and written as such.

soupfiend · 31/01/2024 12:44

VinegarTrio · 31/01/2024 09:03

Societal values have changed quite a lot since middle class england c. 70 years ago.

Lots of the themes and plots in Blyton are overtly moralistic and preach values many people are not on board with.

I wasnt necessarily 'on board with them' as a child in the 70s, some time after they were written, my family were very working class, not something I identified with in lots of her books but I was able to take from them what I enjoyed

And there may be an argument to say that some our societal values have not changed for the better.

ShoePalaver · 31/01/2024 12:47

AnglepoisePond · 31/01/2024 10:44

I would personally choose to add an introduction and republish unchanged, but EB is often repellently classist, sexist and racist.

One which I know has had alterations made in a reissue is The Island of Adventure, which reads quite weirdly if you don’t know it’s been altered. Originally the villain is the black servant Jo-Jo, who is a caricature — violent, threatening, strong, but also shiftless, lazy, cowardly, ignorant and superstitious, bossed around like a child by his employer, his race referenced all the time, speaking a kind of patois possibly intended to be Caribbean, always ‘rolling his eyes’ so the white show when afraid.

(In the reissue, he’s Jo, no race mentioned, and ‘big’ has been substituted for ‘black’ throughout, but he’s still speaking the same way, so he makes no ‘sense’ as a character precisely because he’s no longer an unpleasant stereotype.)

In The Secret Mountain, there’s an African child, Mufumu, who is a piccaninny stereotype, comic, fuzzy-haired, ignorant and unwaveringly loyal to the white saviour children, his worship of one of them (sleeping at his feet, decorating him with flowers) played for laughs.

In The Mountain of Adventure, there’s a black American paratrooper whose ‘thick lips’, ‘woolly hair’ and black face keep being referenced, and who continually talks about himself in the third person as a ‘poor n——’ who is ‘afraid of dem bad mens’.

I read these to DS and we talked about this stuff, as we did about Anne in the Famous Five, and George’s desire to be a boy being entirely understandable in a fictional world where girls are supposed to want to make the beds in the cave hideout rather than spy on smugglers. Or why the working-class child in the Five Find Outers ‘naturally’ has tea in the kitchen with the servants while others have it in their playroom, and why his manners are continually ticked off or praised by the others, and his poetry mocked.

But I couldn’t blame anyone who didn’t want to read this stuff to their non-white child.

Edited

In the faraway tree books I mean. (That is what the thread is about, I know there are unfortunate parts in some of the others - thanks for those examples which although interesting as a sign of the times I don't think should be read by a non white child).

I don't particularly recall any troubling racism, classism or sexism the FT, of course there are "old fashioned" bits.

I never seem to see Frances Hodgson Burnett criticised but her stuff is a million times worse than EB. Is it because it's considered a classic and people are snobby about EB because its literary value is lower?

soupfiend · 31/01/2024 12:50

Yes I was going to add this is about the Faraway book series surely.

I havent read the books mentioned by the PP

Growlybear83 · 31/01/2024 12:58

I loved the Faraway Tree books when I was a child, and so did my daughter. They are a bit bonkers but in a lovely way.

ShoePalaver · 31/01/2024 12:59

twnety · 31/01/2024 11:37

yes and when we were free to be racist sexist arseholes and thank goodness that has changed eh?

I tried to re read The Wishing Chair to my dc when they were little, it was awful - I havent tried The Faraway Tree

I'm not sure it's really changed, it's just less acceptable to talk about it. In practice poor, powerless people are still blamed for the ills of society while the rich get away with giving tax payers money to their mates. And somehow it's acceptable to send asylum seekers to Rwanda. Misogyny is rife as evidenced by recent police behaviour around Sarah everard and the aftermath. Ask any female in a position of authority about misogynist abuse.
The Rotherham child abuse scandal was a good example of classism and misogyny combined. The recent post office scandal had loads of racism towards ethnic minority postmasters.

Will removing references to Golliwogs and girls making beds in kids books change things for the better?

MintTwirl · 31/01/2024 12:59

They are bizarre but my dc loved them.

TheKeatingFive · 31/01/2024 13:03

It does amuse me that the kids in the FT are supposed to be poor children, when it's obvious that Enid Blyton had never met any poor children.

Apart from that, there's very little 'real world' to be problematic

BarnacleBeasley · 31/01/2024 13:19

I did read - and like - pretty much all of EB as a small child but I remember finding the Saucepan Man really fucking tedious even then.

JaninaDuszejko · 31/01/2024 13:32

I loved them and so did my kids.

I think the case for updating children's books in line with modern taste is much stronger than for adult books. The Victorians censored parts of Shakespeare and the Grimm's censored fairy tales so it's not a new phenomenon. I don't think the censoring of EB has been done very well though. The pixie in my modernised version of The Wishing Tree still had the racist name but Bessie in The Magic Faraway Tree is renamed to Beth. It makes no sense!

I read a foreword in a Nancy Mitford book recently that warned readers that the language was of its time and hadn't been changed, I think that's a sensible approach for an adult's book.

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/01/2024 13:33

Yep. Insane and badly written too.
Saucepan Man 🤯

TheFireflies · 31/01/2024 14:49

BarnacleBeasley · 31/01/2024 13:19

I did read - and like - pretty much all of EB as a small child but I remember finding the Saucepan Man really fucking tedious even then.

Absolutely! I used to hope he’d get left behind.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 31/01/2024 14:53

At my Primary, the headmistress had a deep loathing of Enid Blyton, thought them unsuitable for children due to all the prejudice and above all badly written. She used to have anti Enid Blyton rants in front of the whole class.

iamwhatiam23 · 31/01/2024 15:25

My favourite books as a child. I loved them, and i still do.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 31/01/2024 15:26

I loved them and loved reading them to ds too.

kierenthecommunity · 31/01/2024 18:43

What sort of creature was Moonface? Silky was a fairy IIRC and presumably Saucepan Man was just an actual man?

DeathNote11 · 31/01/2024 18:46

The first book I ever picked up & read independently. It's got a special place in my heart.

LennyBalls · 31/01/2024 18:47

I credit the faraway tree for my now adult's son thirst for reading. A friend bought it for his 7th birthday and I'd read it to him at bed time. He loved it and started his love for books. He was always an avid reader after this.

Zanatdy · 31/01/2024 18:48

I absolutely loved these books as a child. I used to think about all the lands at the top of the tree when going to sleep. I guess you need to be the target age to enjoy it. I did read some of it again to my kids but gave up as they weren’t that interested and I realised that it was of it’s time for me and reading it again would spoil the lovely memories. It’s fiction and not as bad shit as many!!

TheKeatingFive · 31/01/2024 19:25

At my Primary, the headmistress had a deep loathing of Enid Blyton, thought them unsuitable for children due to all the prejudice and above all badly written.

And yet these books are still delighting children today, almost a century after they were written. The first FT book was published in 1939

AnglepoisePond · 31/01/2024 19:28

TheFireflies · 31/01/2024 14:49

Absolutely! I used to hope he’d get left behind.

He was. And I imagine if I were deaf, he would make me apoplectic with rage. (Though actually, I can’t remember whether he only can’t hear because he’s always inexplicably wearing a load of saucepans he never seems to sell, which is probably hardly surprising up a tree, or whether he can’t hear even when he’s not wearing any…)

I’ve never been entirely sure about Moonface — I think he’s described as a ‘little man’, rather than a goblin, gnome, brownie etc. But imagine living in a single room where most of the floor is taken up by the entrance to a humongous spiral slide, and hanging around with the bloody Saucepan Man and the Angry Pixie, would have a bad effect on anyone.

Plus, if he asks payment for use of the slippery slip in toffee, he probably hasn’t a tooth in his head.

Silky seems nice, in fairness.

LuluBlakey1 · 31/01/2024 19:28

Are they the ones with 'toffee pops' - the sweets where they swell up in your mouth and then burst and are full of toffee- I always wanted to try those.