VAT on private school fees - will it change how you vote?

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Following on from the other interesting thread about whether it will be implemented, will this policy change how you vote either way?
For me - i've voted Labour and Tory over the years, but Tory for the most recent GE's. This year, i've been thinking seriously about how i'd vote at the next GE and it wasn't definitely a Tory vote - i was definitely a floating voter.
However, my children are at PS and so i will now most definitely be voting Tory (not just because how the VAT will seriously impact us - child number 3 will now not be going to the prep that we had lined up for her, she'll enter the local primary until secondary school - but how i think that it will affect schools negatively and children negatively).
I have a lot of left leaning friends who educate privately and whilst they cannot bring themselves to vote Tory, they won't vote Labour either at the next GE because of this policy.

It seems to me that this policy is only a vote loser (ie many Labour voters and 'floaters' who school privately won't vote for them at the next GE) and not a vote winner (ie i can't imagine that many Tory or 'floaters' will vote for Labour solely on this policy).

AiBU to think that Labour have really shot themselves in the foot with this idea?

Yes and the squeezed middle will stop working so hard, stop doing overtime, stop accepting raises etc. If you punish people for doing the right thing they will stop doing the right thing.

So there are 550k kids at private schools.
It's really not going to generate much, is it? The more I look into it, it is just a headline grabber. It will be used as an excuse for people to privately vote Tory.

I'd be more impressed with properly taxing Amazon, Starbucks etc as someone said up-thread. That would actually probably cover the cost of new school buildings, for example. Surely that would cater for both sides, but Labour are clearly scared of upsetting Big Business.

I think that given the current level of dissatisfaction with Conservatives it would take more than a 9% swing of private school parents for them to win the election.

FWIW it is making me want to vote Labour more but I'd be even happier if they undertook to banish private schooling forever. I believe it is the foundation of social inequality in our very unequal country.

Which schools charge vat?

the provision of education is exempt from vat rather than it being based on the schools charitable status so a school can be a private business not a charity and still doesn’t have to charge vat on its fees.

there are some complications where vat is charged on tutor for example where the business structure means vat has to to charge but I’m interested in your reply as I cannot think for the life of me why someone would structure a school that taught traditional school subjects in a way that meant they had to charge vat on the fees, I’ve never come across it in practise. I deal with this as part of my work although I am not a vat expert

They shouldnt be because education isnt vatable whoever provides it. They might be operating as a business and paying business rates, not claiming gift aid on donations, paying tax on their investments and making profits. But they cant collect VAT to give to the government on something that isnt vatable. Just like sainsburys wont be collecting vat on basic bread.

I would say Blair was far more destructive and his pernicious legacy has infected every government since....

It may suit you to ignore it but that’s part of the problem.

Any society that promotes dependency over personal responsibility is on a slippery slope towards going bust.

I will still vote Labour even though I am opposed to this policy and have children in the independent sector. I can't really afford the fee increase so my oldest will need to move into the state sector for his GCSEs. I will still try to give all of my children years 7-11 in private school.

The thing is, is this significant enough to make the vast majority of people vote on it? Has no bearing on my life (unless you look at it that there would be more pressure on the state system) so it has little impact to me as a voter. There are many other issues I would rather see them campaigning on.

A lot of parents I know in the SEN community are not going private now but will instead use funding for educational psychologists, legal advice etc for EHCPS.

they’re going to push loudly for support for their kids in mainstream and will be a thorn for educators and SENCOS.

this will inevitably be at the disadvantage of children with no one to advocate for them. time and energy will be spent on the new influx of children who will need a lot of special dispensation. There just isn’t the flexible curriculum, small classes etc that some kids need.

there’s also a lot of v sporty kids in private who have a rich sports curriculum in private schools and flexibility to leave for tournaments etc. our future Olympians etc will be badly catered for in mainstream.

I feel slightly bitter about this because DS (ASD) ended up going to to a small private school because back in 2009, after 11 years of Labour government, the state system failed for us.

Year R - school overcrowded and children split between different classes over the school day while they tried to build more classrooms. Year 1 DS not allowed into school in afternoons. I’m sure this was illegal but we chose moving him to a small private school instead of fighting to stay in a system that wasn’t working.

However (for reasons others have pointed out), in general this is a popular policy. I wouldn’t mind if I thought it could genuinely help parents in the situation we were in, but I don’t think it will.

However I still think that overall Labour are the better option. (And it’s Tories who have allowed ‘TWAW’ to dominate public policy over the past 15 years)

Why do you feel it is morally right to charge VAT on private schools?

It is illegal to tax education in the EU and no other country in the world does it. Are they all wrong and acting in a non-moralistic manner? That seems incredibly unlikely.

Brilliantly said. All it does is much more children into the over-stretched, cripplingly under-funded state system. Why not do grant aided, to give more children a chance at what is claimed to be a head start in life? No, just widen the divide.

Yes, it will change my vote (along with their confusion about what a woman is)
Lifelong Labour voter. It will be a cold day in hell before I’d vote Tory, currently very undecided. It won’t be either labour or Tory though.

But we have had 13 years of Tory government leading to the stats quoted about dependency and net contributions.

@Coffeesnob11 @Kendodd @Morph22010 thats incorrext. VAT is chargeable on a class of goods and services which is determined by law. It is not picked and chosen based on or by suppliers. Supply of education services is currently nil rated.

once it applies to a class of services / goods, it applies to ALL suppliers of those goods and services. So state schools providing extra music or language lessons for a fee will have to pay it. Special needs schools for profoundly disabled kids will have to pay it. Evening classes for adults will have to pay it.
its up to the supplier whether they pass on the VAT to the customer (but who doesn’t?)

It’s a popular policy, and I’ll be voting Labour anyway.

Only the wealthy can afford it. You are deluded if you think otherwise! I have nothing against private schools by the way, but nobody sending their kids to one isn't well off.

I’ll vote tories - as I’ve always done. I don’t know many of my friends who will vote for labour - I have one friend who I know is a labour supporter but kids do to PS who will vote tories too.

Why don’t private school lower or partially lower their fees to offset the VAT amount? Because they certainly can. They are as money grabbing and for themselves as any government are.

I agree with this. The projected revenue is tiny. It's a policy that penalises children. It is the worst kind of politics - the politics of envy.

@Charlie2121 what you call 'dependency' is what many would call shared responsibility. There is such a thing as society, whatever Thatcher said, and in a healthy, well-balanced society, we look out for each other as well as ourselves, safe in the knowledge that others are looking out for us. To create a cohesive society, we should pride ourselves on excellent schooling, well-educated, sane children and adolescents in healthy bodies.

Properly run, such a society would never prevent choice or penalise people for taking the strain away from any state costs by opting for private medicine or education.

But the notion that dirt poor service and care workers who can;t survive on two minimum wages coming in lack personal responsibility is wearing very thin indeed after too long a Tory government. We should respect and care for each other and actively foster a happy, healthy, protected society. That's good government. None of that in evidence in any way since the Tories got in.

But private education penalises children- massively. So you’re ok with a tiny few enjoying a system that furthers inequality at the expense of the majority but not this?

You couldn’t make it up. 😂

Our plan was to downsize from a semi to a terrace. Use equity for an offset mortgage to help us pay fees. Our house now is worth just over 300k - we would have increased our mortgage size too.

i consider us well off, but we’re not wealthy. We just have different priorities to a lot of people.

Bingo