Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

If small class sizes are a USP for private then..

Falling rolls!

State can cut in naturally without this policy

@izimbra state primary for us and then grammar. 3 out of 4 DC would have been fine in any good school and are 4 A star type Russell group uni, sociable profile. 1 is basically an off the charts genius and that is not recognised as a SEN in this country when it absolutely needs to be. But if you don’t have a child with that profile and the anxiety/depression that happens in the wrong learning environment, it is difficult to understand.

Sadly, working in state schools and having children in state schools, i can see small classes arent viable. Schools are closing, classes merge. Head teachers get shared. The Labour suggestion isnt for increased education funding from what i understand. Id love to think they would maintain current funding levels for decreasing population sizes and that would lead to improvements but i wont be banking on that happening. It might just about mitigate the impact of inflation.

"I really think the point that surely mostly people agree on is that state education in this country is on the whole dire ( yes there's some pockets of good schools, not everywhere"

Is it though?

By what metric?

"But if you don’t have a child with that profile and the anxiety/depression that happens in the wrong learning environment, it is difficult to understand."

My son who's studying Engineering has ASD and a clinical depression. My other son has bipolar 1 and psychosis. Their comprehensive was very supportive of their significant mental health needs.

I guess this shows difference

We used a comp and had a good experience and results. I don’t need to push out private dc or care they’re paying. We got to the same place without the fees.

Behaviour, attendance, outcomes, aspirations, teacher retention, how many teacher vacancies there are.

I appreciate that if you have privileged to have good local schools then it is easy to swipe aside concerns of people who don't have that privilege.
Read the papers, read MN posts by teachers.
To deny that the state system is in overall crisis is ridiculous.

My child in state has a terrible teacher for one of his a levels. Is it a tiny department and she is the only teacher. Not sure whether to complain - in which case she is likely to go off sick (as she did in his gcse) and he will have a non-specialist teacher - or just put up with a bad teacher and buy the study guides. Dilemma that many state school pupils have which would not happen in a private school.

The private school my child goes to is assuming that it will happen and fast. As part of their charitable status they offer a lot of scholarships and bursaries - I'm hoping these don't stop.

They will absorb some of the costs but some will be passed onto parents.

Our local primary has real problems with staff turnover and class sizes are 38+. But the main reason I sent DC to private school is because they don't have sats and don't pressurise too much when it comes to maths and English.

I imagine that homeschooling may rise even further if people can't afford the fees but don't agree with the way state schools teach.

I have attended open days as the school my DS is currently at and at other private schools over the past six months and it’s been made very clear that they are looking at many different options to try and mitigate the VAT impact. So you’ve no reason to be disgusted.

Whose fault is this though? Hold government and politicians accountable not parents who send their DC to private school.

The government is evading responsibility by diverting attention to private schools.

I'm from Asia, and one of the reasons my DC attends private is the quality of education is poor in state schools in this country. Why should I have my DC disadvantaged?

This is not a government proposal.

It's the opposition who want to implement it.

Interestingly, if this does come in , surely it will affect people’s, who are paying it, view of funding education and sharing facilities from the school side.
if this VAT is charged, many parents paying will feel they are paying both normal taxes (as do all) plus this ‘surcharge’ into the general educational pot. If the state sector is still delivering poorly after having the surcharge won’t those parents have zero interest in voting for a party that has created this divide?

And from the schools side, they still need to behave as a charity, but since they can choose between voluntary local clubs etc using facilities or schools, it would only be human to prioritise the former given that they are not benefiting from the surcharge - which according to the proposal will level things up.

I don’t think there are many Labour voters in this particularly small subset of people anyway.

The private school I used didn’t engage with local state schools at all. Didn’t ever rent out or open up its facilities to anyone or anything not associated or linked with the school.

I think you’d be surprised. I was a swing voter but I won’t be voting for labour on the back on this and one other policy. I would have considered it otherwise.

@Trappedandunhappy fair enough. Ours does tonnes - but also loads with external clubs and other charities

I disagree in that a charity school will have a charitable objective which is normally 'provision of education' . Therefore its charitable activities would need to be related to its core objective. Thats not to say they couldnt also report on stuff incidental to its core objective too but I'd expect a school to report that it provides education to x number of students, that x number of those have a bursary, that education is supported at x number of state schools by doing y and z and then wider stuff like money raised by pupils for whatever causes and community groups supported would come at the end of any assessment of its charitable activies as they'd be incidental to the core purpose.

Our has a significant number of bursaries (it is pretty much if you are academic enough to get in, there should be a bursary to help you - although that is funded by both endowments and current parents - ourselves included, which is likely to be hit if people are struggling to pay the fees for their own child ) , and lots of wider non school ( but still educational clubs) using them. Am sure they meet the educational charitable purpose.

sorry the point I was trying to make is that educational charity purposes are a lot wider than offerings to state schools.

Out of interest, is this because on principle you think a country's tax policy should protect the privilege of privately educated children, or because you personally have kids at private school and can't afford the extra £8 a day the imposition of VAT might result in?

"sorry the point I was trying to make is that educational charity purposes are a lot wider than offerings to state schools."

Agree - the bursary system is very effective at stripping the state sector of significant musical, sporting or academic talent, thus providing a rationale for further reducing the state sector to a 'drone producing' facility for the economy.

Don't worry, many schools will potentially end or reduce bursaries if VAT is applied
Not all will as it depends where the funds come from but DDs school will end bursaries for new students. So you should be happy with this.

The £8 a day argument is ridiculous. On school fees of £20k, it’s £4k a year extra, for one child. For some private school parents that’s a drop in the ocean, for others it’s a lot of extra money to find.

What I'm often struck by is how accepting we are that educational charities - namely private schools, with assets and turnovers of billions of £££, do almost nothing for the children most in need of educational charity - namely the poorest and lowest achieving children in state schools, whose educational failure ends up costing the tax payer enormous sums of money via the prison system, the NHS and the welfare state.