Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

Sorry. That wasn’t me that asked that. I missed that you were answering a specific question.

Many people could afford private school if they made the sacrifices I have made. I come from a council house. I put myself through uni doing 2 jobs. I have 2 post grads and a masters. I did them all part time over many years while working jobs that do not earn a lot. That is how I got the above average salary.

I know that family members still do scrape together money to get through the month and I appreciate that is tough. But they did not spend the years I did just working. They had children. As a result they have the size of family I would love, but cannot have. I have a different lifestyle that they might want, but I am sure they would not give up what they have for it.

Everything is about budgeting, time, resources etc. Very few people do not have choices.

I expect most of the posters arguing that the VAT levy is a good thing are the same posters that moan about the lack of funding in the state sector, whilst at the same dismissing posters who say that there is a real likelihood of a large number of children leaving the private school and burdening the state sector.

Also falling numbers may mean that some private schools go bust and close so that may all also put more children into the state sector.

Sorry, you’ve got a similar name to the person I was replying to!

and some countries make sure the state edu system is so good, so well funded, equipped and staffed, that a tiny minority choose private. And mostly because the child/ren is/are not very bright or have issues, and this is well-known and recognised by industry, business, unis, etc.

20% is quite a lot. People live to their means and for most families who are paying fees themselves out of their earned wage, this will be a noticable difference and one that many will struggle to find. Just like many people are finding their increased mortgages unaffordable.

Really don’t think we need to worry about the numbers who will move to the state sector. It will be a small proportion of an already tiny number spread across the whole country.

Mortgages are necessary, private education isn’t.

A mortgage is not a necessity. Plenty of the population can only dream of owning their own house. Being able to buy a house is privileged. Should we be telling homeowners struggling with mortgages to just suck up the cost increase, or just change their lifestyle, sell and rent like a lot of the population?

Ok mortgage OR rent is a necessity. Private education isn’t.

Have not RTFT
but
(a) Due to standard VAT business rules, the amount gained by forcing this policy will be a LOT less than promoted
(b) the schools hardest hit will be the SEN schools funded by councils
(c) and exemption for B will be mercilessly gamed by normal schools rendering it useless
(d) which countries have no private schools AND have their rich kids educated in that country

There really are some posters on this thread who are absolutely rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of children having their lives turned upside down - it’s absolutely vile and morally bankrupt.

There will be children who are forced to move halfway through exams and can’t get into a school offering the same subject choices/exam boards. They will be fucked.

Kids who move to state and find themselves horrifically bullied for being ‘posh’, SEN kids who are uprooted from places they thrive and sent back to schools that didn’t work for them.

Kids having to leave schools at short notice when their schools close and possibly being without a school place for months whilst LA’s try to find them one.

It’s absolutely repugnant for some posters to be absolutely desperate to stand by and gloat whilst these kids have to deal with all that. They are children.

They don't care.

All it matters is their own children, see Diane Abbott for example, or class warfare.

I can see they don’t care, but what is really, truly unpleasant, is that they’re actually enjoying the suffering some of these kids have coming to them. It’s quite shocking really that anyone could be so excited at the prospect of kids being forced into such upheaval.

I agree. This is a spiteful measure, despicable.

edwinbear · Today 21:39

There really are some posters on this thread who are absolutely rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of children having their lives turned upside down - it’s absolutely vile and morally bankrupt.

Kids who move to state and find themselves horrifically bullied for being ‘posh’.

Yes, judging by comments such as ‘boater wearing horrors’ I’m sure some posters would rub their hands with glee at the prospect of children being bullied for being ‘posh’.

Yes will happen 100%

Even if these policy is not implemented I know a few parents from our independent school who are preparing for the eleven plus exams for the grammar. If anything this policy will push brighter kids to grammar and well off parents to a better catchment area. It will shift the balance even more towards richer kids.

That does happen though doesn't it? Lots of people do have to cut back in other expenses, sell or downsize if they can no longer afford their mortgages.

Our village primary has not been inspected for 13 years. I don't trust the "Outstanding" rating now. I wasn't even able to look around the school or to talk to the headteacher/staff due to Covid restrictions when we were choosing schools for our son. Several children have moved to my son's prep since it was dire.

“VAT on school fees will save state schools just as effectively as Brexit saved the NHS.” Exactly.

They can pour all the money they want at state schools. The main problem is the behaviour of some of the kids at state schools. Let’s be honest there are teachers being bullied and forced to leave. I would never send my kids to state school.

Private schools should always exist and should be more affordable. Have more bursaries and scholarships.

Look, it's the language that I have a problem with. Sacrifice is definitely a loaded word. You made your choices, your family members made different choices. Neither are right or wrong but from what you've described I'm not convinced that these choices are really sacrifices. Unless we devalue the word.

Also, since your original post said 'many people are placing their children in state school with incomes like ours and have the extra child, go on the holidays etc and are not making those sacrifices' that absolutely suggested you were talking about sacrifices in how you spend your money now. That's certainly how most people are using it on this thread. Choices in how you spend large amounts of money aren't sacrifices.

Don't put words into my mouth. If you wish to ask me a question then pose it as a question, not a statement which ends with a question mark (and hence gives the impression that you have already made up your mind).

No, I believe that any money raised by the tax will be offset by the pupils who end up switching to state and costing the state money.

Yes. There can be advantages. It can provide a wider variety of models for kids with various needs, or parents with different philosophies around education, it can put the school more directly in the hands of parents, and also prevents the situation where the state has pretty much free access to mold children with whatever suits them , rather than what is good for the kids.

Not gloating but simply don’t have much sympathy for parents having to move children. Plenty of children move schools and survive.

There are parents of children in the state system far more worthy of concern and support but I notice fee paying parents didn't really give a shit about them when they were able to pay more than many earn in school fees to be in a system they know causes huge inequalities.

If anybody on lower wages overstretched themselves financially causing some disruption for their children there would be little sympathy just a huge amount of judgement. Overstretching yourselves and not budgeting ahead so you can’t cope with increases in fees is down to you.