Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

I've just looked up the Independent school my DD went to many years ago. I recalled it was £3k per term then. Now it's £6280 per term without lunch. Plus any extras including stationery, and Wednesday afternoon activities. Senior schools are around this price.

It often said that a bright child with involved parents will do well anywhere. We thought that and my DD was in a RI state secondary in year 10, on course for all 7-9 grades. She was then badly bullied and the school did nothing - they seemed to have a complete lack of pastoral care and/or were busy focusing on the disruptive children. The outcome was her refusing to go to school and because all the other local state schools were full, rather than risk completely messing up her GCSEs (and mental health) we moved her to a small local private school, who luckily agreed to take her part way through the year due to her good academic history, where she did really well. We could barely afford it and probably wouldn’t have been able to after a 20% fee increase.

I had always considered my self left leaning politically and it felt completely against my principles but we couldn’t see another way forward.

My brothers and I went to intercity comps. All went to Russell Group Universities.
My children and their friends went to comps too. They are Doctors,engineers, scientists, academics.
I fail to see why going to a comp means you can not succeed.

Probably best to wait for their manifesto, but if it is in there, then yes I would expect them to implement it.

If they are going to soften the policy (say 10% first year) then I would expect it to be announced at the manifesto rather than implemented after they get in.

You originally said 12K per term. DDs school is a bit under 17K per year and some are closer to 13K per year. It completely depends whereabouts in the country you live.

It's one of the few policies that Starmer hasn't backed out of yet, and it's one of his stupidest.

There's almost no detail on how they'd actually implement it, and it's impossible to see how it wouldn't result in private education just becoming more elitist.

@Dibblydoodahdah

I have no idea why you think my experience and opinion is far superior. I mean thank you. But it's not what I think. Everyone is entitled to their experience and opinion.

As peope have said umpteen times, it depends on your local schools. State schools are in crisis at the moment. Our local ones not a single DC got into a RG uni in 4 years and aspirations are low.

You did the right thing. I was your daughter 30+ years ago (although I was in what would have been classed as an outstanding state comp nowadays). I ended up with a suicide attempt as my mental health was destroyed as a result of bullying. It is utter rubbish that all bright kids do well in whatever school they go to. Some do, some don’t. The problem is that the ones that do just keep repeating that bright kids can do well anywhere. They can’t see it from someone else’s point of view. The worst thing for me is that my brother is a state school teacher (a Head of Year). He has victim blamed me (on a public forum) for my treatment at school.

@Gingerbee Because the local comp doesn't offer a'levels. Not well, not badly, just not at all.

The only state 6th form available is 27 miles away and there's no bus.

What do you suggest I do?

And it’s not just the difference in schools. Pupils within the same school can have a very different experience.

I had always considered my self left leaning politically and it felt completely against my principles but we couldn’t see another way forward.

Pretty much everyone considers themselves ‘left leaning’ until they have better options. My aunt is MEGA left leaning, she went to private school herself and walked out as soon as legally able at 16 in protest because she felt so opposed to being there. She’s a lifelong socialist, despises the Tories, tax the rich, blah blah. Yet when her DC was faced with going to the local comp with a terrible reputation, she suddenly overcame her scruples to allow my grandparents to pay for her to go private. 🤷🏼‍♀️

To be honest, I was worried that my DD was going to take her own life due to the situation, so yes, “blah, blah”, if you want to call me a hypocrite, that’s fine, because my “better option” was my child still being here. I grew up working class, in social housing and didn’t go to private school, and we live in a socially deprived area with generally rubbish schools.

@Naptrappedmummy

hahaha thats pretty funny

@Meadowfinch

“The only state 6th form available is 27 miles away and there's no bus.

What do you suggest I do?”

Clearly, they want you to move house and cough up some stamp duty to get the housing market going. That is all any politician seems to care about these days. Not Education, but the housing market so the general population feels happy they are rich on paper and votes them back in again.

Our local primary is dreadful. Last year, far less than half left at age 11 having reached the expected standards in English and maths. Behaviour wasn’t great. Sending mine to a fee paying school where they were taught to read and write properly was not, in my opinion, a “luxury”. It should be seen as something which all children should be entitled to.

Oh I think you made the right decision, absolutely, just pointing out others that are vehement they would NEVER send their DC private may change their minds under the right circumstances

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

They asked why couldn't people manage it if they can manage it for childcare. They didn't say some or allude to numbers.

So I pointed out many don't pay childcare.

I'm not sure why you are finding this so difficult.

We were absolutely stunned, she wasn’t just left leaning, she was a fully paid up socialist - active in politics, very outspoken about how the elite and wealthy control the masses.

Just goes to show doesn’t it..!

My Labour friends tell me that it's likely to happen, they've made enough announcements about it now so any climb down is probably unlikely.

One of them did describe it as similar to the fox hunting ban the last time Labour won, that's its maybe more of a second term initiative. Getting into power and immediately costing (albeit a very small minority of) family's thousands of pounds a year would be an unusual strategy.

It doesn't. It's just ignorance and prejudice.

I’m not sure why you’re finding it so difficult! I haven’t said anything that was incorrect. As I said previously, if they are using UC to pay they are not paying, someone else is. I’m sure the poster is quite aware that not everyone pays. They were clearly talking about people that do pay.

I have confidence that kids from comprehensives can do anything, achieve anything, be doctors, engineers, etc. Those people denigrating comps and state school kids are not helping this argument one little bit. My kids will do well at state school, partly because we are privileged enough to help them and support them out of school hours.

Some other kids go to schools where the parents pay the fees. It costs loads - almost as much as my annual salary - but I don't mind, crack on. Those parents don't get to opt out of paying for the state school place they are entitled to, but they are opting out of using it. Which makes life better for my kids.

Making it unaffordable for many to continue in private school means they will come and take what's rightfully theirs, making school a little bit more squeezed for everyone else.

VAT might cancel out the cost issue but it won't magic up bigger classrooms or more teachers.

The only people this policy won't harm is the super rich, because they are super rich. There aren't very many of them either

It’ll be like this I think Op haha

No in some people's experience it js fact!
Not that state kids aren't capable, of course they are and no-one is suggesting otherwise BUT you need to be given the opportunity and education to achieve these things.
The current crisis in some state schools means that the kids in them don't get either.

If you have great schools around you then that's fantastic but you have to be aware that many people do not hence the switch to private options.