Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

I have notning to apologise for.

I hope they do it very quickly.

Shame they won't remove charitable status too.

Private education is a luxury and as such should be taxed like every other luxury.

Which students? Very few of these well
off and wealthy parents will change their kids school before they downgrade their car, downsize their house, sell some shares, rent out their second home, sell their watch that cost them more than I spent in my perfectly fine family car.

most won’t struggle to find the money. The schools might reduce their profits rather than pass the expense on.

I think it could go either way tbh. It's one of their most publicised policies so there is a huge expectation that it will happen, but it's not the first time a party has backtracked once in power.

We have 1 dc in a small London prep and another due to start next year. We could afford the fee increase personally, but I suspect not all the parents at our school could, and there is a chance the school would struggle to stay open if lots of pupils left. We live in an area where there are lots of other preps nearby so we could find another place, but it would be disruptive and sad for dc to lose their friends, and it would be a hassle to travel to school beyond the current 5 min walk. I don't think we'd consider moving to state though, as we can afford it comfortably and we're used to the small class sizes and opportunities in a prep.

@Trappedandunhappy most parents paying for private school are already making massive sacrifices. There are some who have enough money no matter what. They are not the majority.

And on top of the benefit of that cohort, with parents who value education, the letters soliciting donations to the parental contribution fund just write themselves...

@Trappedandunhappy and whatever you want to try and do to those who are trying to take their children away from inadequate schooling, will never make state schools better for your own children, sadly.

Increasing income tax isn’t the way to address the obscene inequality in this country. The tax needs to be on wealth.

VAT on school fees is just a no brainer. It should always have been subject to VAT. It is an absolute luxury and one that I was privileged enough to give to my DC for their primary years. It was only a move that changed that.

You are quoting a time period where mortgage rates were low and before we had massive inflation. There’s always a tipping point. This will be it for some people.

I have not seen a properly costed plan that takes into account the fact that - as most parents will
not have this money lying around (and if they did and were earning interest on it, they would be likely to be paying tax at 45% on it), parents who need to pay increased fees due to VAT will cut back on
otjrt expenses which also pay VAT - eg new cars or house renovations. There won’t be any MORE VAT being paid - it will just be under a new heading. So no more money in the pot. And potentially higher numbers in state schools - now - not when the population decline hits.

If they carry it through immediately, they'll create a more elitist school system, deprive thousands of SEN children an education, and overcrowd the state system when it's at its lowest ebb. I hope they have more sense.

I am a single mum and have a ds at an indie on a scholarship. If Labour act immediately, it will impact only for his A'level year. We will be lucky, it will cost me an extra £1,800 but I'll scrape it together somehow.

It feels like they are pulling the ladder up behind them. 🙁

That assumes that raising the money is the objective

According to the private education policy forum "The pupil-teacher ratio is 8.5 to 1 in ISC schools, less than half the ratio in state schools, which is 17.9 in England. In other words, a privately-educated pupil will have double the number of teachers as a state-educated pupil."

As staff costs make up the bulk of the budget in schools, this means that private schools have a lot of 'fat' that could be trimmed to reduce costs. It would also increase the pool of staff for state schools which are currently struggling with recruitment, to draw from.

It couldn’t be subject to VAT as EU law wouldn’t allow it. No country in the World imposes sales tax on education. Why is that?!

Inadequate state schools is a separate issue. Private education is a luxury. I say this as someone who has used it. It’s just unfair. We need more money in the pot and the system protects those with the most power and wealth. VAT on school fees is just one example.

This is beyond naive.

It was illegal to impose VAT on private education whilst Britain was in the EU. It's EU law that education cannot be subject to VAT. So Britain will be an outlier in Europe when this comes in.

I don’t know about the legality of it but when there is state education provided, it IS a luxury. One my DC were able to enjoy for a while.

Because the fact we still have a royal family completely underpins the mindset that inequality is acceptable.

What on earth would be the point of abolishing private schools whilst we are still expected to honour people who didn't earn their privilege but were born into it.

When do you think the population decline is going to hit, exactly?

"If Labour act immediately, it will impact only for his A'level year. We will be lucky, it will cost me an extra £1,800 but I'll scrape it together somehow."

I'm going to guess your child is very high achieving (because mainstream private schools almost never extend their charitable largesse to the children most in need of it - poor, low achieving kids) , in which case he would have absolutely no problem getting a place at an excellent state school sixth form, so if I was you I wouldn't worry. I'd also be considering the fact that if your child attends a state school they may be able to get a contextualised offer from a good university. :-)

There's no "bigger picture" thinking behind this idea.

An increase on private school fees won't bother the super rich; they'll continue to pay and private schools (& potentially universities) will become educational facilities for the uber-rich only.

Those mid-high income families barely scraping by to put their kids into private will pull them out and spend the money on buying houses near the best state schools/grammar schools making it impossible for those on a lower income to afford to live within catchment.

State schools will become oversubscribed when families pull their kids from private and the catchment areas made smaller, so only those who can afford to live very close to the good schools will be able to get in.

This trickle down effect will continue. It will take years, but the class & educational divide will become even bigger.

All for a relatively meagre tax income which will be a drop in the ocean compared to all the state funding the government will need to stump up.

Instead of parents paying £20k per year per child to get their child educated (& it costing the tax man nothing) if that child is placed into state then the government will have to give £5-£6k per yr per child (I believe is the current figure) to state schools for that child, who previously cost them nothing. The tax would have raised £2k per year, but instead will cost them £5k-£6k; a £3k to £4k loss per yr per child.

How is that good business practice and good for the economy?

I disagree. There were loads of extra staff at the private school we used. Incomparable to the state school DC are currently at (which is a good one). Staff could easily be cut. There were specialists employed in every subject. Music teacher. Dance teacher. Drama teacher. That could be one or two posts rather than three. I think parents would probably rather pay more.

Yes they will and I 1000% agree with it.

State schools have cut staff and increased class sizes to reduce costs over the past decade, but private schools can't possibly be expected to do the same?

Despite the enormous and disproportionate increase in fees over the past decade?

🤔