AIBU to sue the NHS for medical negligence in which my Dad died.

[Fedupofdiets]

My beloved Dad died last year from multi-organ failure due to sepsis and DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) in an NHS hospital. We had take him to hospital with a deteriorating foot wound secondary to his diabetes and staff failed to spot the signs of sepsis and also failed to do a blood test and discharged him home despite a high blood sugar reading and known cardiac issues. He was readmitted 2 day later as he deteriorated and died from multi organ failure. I raised a complaint which then turned into an investigation from which I had the report in November. I have only recently been able to bring myself to read it - they admit that had had they treated him on the first admission there is a chance his death could have been avoided (the report is very long and very technical but I am a HCP so understand what happened).

I have contacted a Solicitor and given the info they have said that there is evidence that would support a claim of litigation against the trust. I am however in two minds whether to pursue it, on one hand I don't want to add to my pain (I will be the driving force behind the claim my siblings do not know although my Mother fully supports it). The other part of me wants my Fathers name on their lips - he was in his 60s and did not deserve to die alone without his family due to their negligence. My Mother is also working FT in a minimum wage care job (70 this year) and hell yes any money would be great for her.

So my question is WWYD leave it be or pursue a claim?

I think you should but be advised it can take a long time, and it probably won’t make you feel any better.
Also,
You only have a short amount of time (it’s 2 years here) to start the case so if you are doing it, do it.

Just one more thing and may upset people but if so many people don’t sue, or don’t call that ambulance or don’t go to A and E because ‘the system is on its knees‘ and they feel guilty for adding to that, then the true information is not really being seen.

nothing is ever going to change unless the true picture is seen.

All the very best and I’m so sorry about your dad.

Do it. Dh is is doing similar in relation to his mums death.

If this has affected your mum financially then do it . I wish I had for my dad really but was then dealing with my mum who died 8 weeks later I think she just gave up to be honest . You don’t expect your parent to go into hospital with a broken ankle and not come out . Especially when you have to tell the staff he seems to have had a stroke while in there.

I am not sure just throwing money at it is the whole answer though . Change is needed.

I really hope people keep adding their experiences to this thread and a journalist picks it up for once.

I do have immense sympathy for the beleaguered staff who are hamstrung by under- funding and bureaucracy and are trying to do the job they consider a vocation. I can see the bigger picture here.

It's a political hot potato and some patients I think also fall into that category when situations are complex and systemic box ticking doesn't cut it.

Perhaps it's time for a patient and staff alliance to form to lobby for urgent investigation and change.

I am cynical that changing one's vote will effect significant change and it doesn't address the problems being faced now.

If the long term goal is US style privatisation and health insurance for all then God help us.

I have made a wrongful death claim against the NHS. In my case they admitted liability anyway so it was just a quantum claim.
You don't get a lot of money in comparison to what you have lost. Statutory amount is £15k plus whatever else you are out of pocket on. It was even less when I did it.

I would do it. Your dad was very young, it was treatable and no patient with his issues should be discharged anyway, even if they missed the sepsis (which they shouldn't have done).

I wouldn't feel remotely bad about it, where I work is very resistant to change and the only thing they are scared of is lawyers. Happiness of staff, students, anyone is utterly irrelevant, they only thing they ever shift for is the threat of being sued and so that's why I would seek fair compensation for the injury your family has suffered.

Not at all, though instead of "front line staff" I should probably have said those not in a position to make the decisions

That said, identifying who makes them can be a byzantine horror, which suits too many just fine

@Puzzledandpissedoff ah right so you still meant managers, just worded it differently. I'd genuinely love to know how it's the fault of the decision makers that we are in this mess.

Without knowing how the decision making process works, is it not reasonable to wonder if the decisions made may be the issue?

For example, who makes the decisions about discharge? Managers or clinicians. Can Managers influence or over-ride a clinical view? What are the criteria? If a family is refusing discharge due to concerns about safeguarding, who looks into that?

This would be useful information in my own current situation. If I could ask the right questions perhaps I could get answers that truly explain the situation rather than blithely being told they'll send carers in 4 times a day, although to do what is a mystery, as my SM needs 24 hour supervision and stimulation and we need guidance as to how to manage her paranoid delusions and aggression without unintentionally being had up on potential abuse charges if we act in self defence. Just asking 🤔

You can’t “move then round the hospital” because quite simply there are no beds round the hospital to to move them into. This is why old wards, secretaries offices and broom cupboards are being opened up to create more beds. But you need staff for these extra beds and they often aren’t any.
In my hospital on every ward there are at least 20% of patients usually 30-40 % are waiting to go home. The overwhelming majority are elderly and require either a package of care or a care home/nursing home placement. There are no packages of care even if you’re desperate, because it’s a poorly paid minimum wage job it’s thankless and difficult, staff often don’t get paid for driving between clients, there are no care home/nursing home placements because they also cant staff these places, most are privately run, staff are on minimum wage, they get no enhancements for working nights/weekends it’s hard work and difficult. Secondly someone has to fund it. if its fully funded by the council then choices of suitable homes are limited, the amount of home care you get will be limited no council will pay to have your dusting done, it’s not fully funded by the council money has to be found, POA may have to be obtained which can be a lengthy process people. My hospital was so desperate for beds that it asked via local BBC news for people to think about taking their elderly relatives home and looking after them rather than waiting for a package of care unsurprisingly there was little response from families.
If @reflecting2023 you have a quick but sustainable fix for this problem I’m sure the NHS where you live would be delighted to hear from you.
Successive government have been warned about the social care crisis and successive government have refused to come u with a sustainable and acceptable to Jo Public plan. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Er yes they are moved round the hospital - to make other beds often covid swaps making a ccu or stroke bed or to discharge lounge often overnight often multiple moves.

But used to be medical decision now bed manager / nursing management / patient flow decision due to general bed desperation
Rearranging deckchairs

Ive used to be involved in managing beds you can swap patients around but this does not create extra beds. You create extra bed spaces by opening up areas where beds aren’t meant to be, offices, unused wards, discharge lounges cupboards etc but then they type of patient you can put into these spaces is very limited. The patients are usually relatively well, for example don’t have an O2 requirement because as a general principle secretaries office don’t have piped O2 in them. All this requires additional staffing which often don’t exist or existing staff are expected to look after more patients than they feel comfortable with and are unable to give the time they want too to the individual patients. This leads to further frustration staff get stressed and unhappy they leave or go off sick putting more pressure on existing staff and so it goes on. Many patients complain about vociferously and even aggressively about these extra bed spaces they usually don’t have TV’s windows, call bells and no space for arm chairs etc. I spent a lot of my working day explaining that although I knew the situation wasn’t ideal there was no other option many patients seemed to be labouring under the impression that I had a lovely empty fully staffed ward (preferably with a view) which I was keeping for God knows what and that I was gaining some sort of perverse pleasure from putting them in a windowless secretaries office. Eventually even extra bed spaces become full up and then there physically is no where to put people so patients sit in corridors waiting areas around desks in A and E waiting for some sort of miracle to happen.
No one wants this not the patients and the relatives not the staff but none of us has any choice.

"more knowledgeable than anyone at the hospital"

bold claims.

Please do it . As bad as this sounds the best way to prevent clinical negligence is actually suing the trust . Everything else seems to fall behind deaf ears .

Agree podiatry rv vital and useful

Op I would like to advise you to take note of @Jggg advice:

"but also shift the blame to him and your family for not bringing him back sooner. They will use his poorly controlled diabetes not only to explain why he died, but to extrapolate to his character as someone who doesn't take care of themselves, and to explain that his life expectancy probably wasn't great either (even though no one has a crystal ball). It is not fair but that is how the legal system works and unless the trust thinks they don't stand a chance then it is going to litigation which you may lose (costing you money for solicitor) or win a sum of money that might not be worth it."

And to advise you to never ever again refer to his 'poor diabetic control again'. Don't give them that ammunition. You're going to have to fight hard.

They will fobb you off, somethjng chronic.

Does it say anywhere in his notes, by his diabetic consultant, diabetic nurse at Gp surgery, anyone else said once he got into hospital (in which case we'd have to question any basic nurse's - their medical authority to make such a comment?).

I've been diabetic my whole life, I monitor it closely, am on a cgm, and I can still go high, within an hour, and then low, even when I'm watching it and monitoring it every few minutes.

Focus on all their repeated negligence and their failures at every point, and try and play down, prevent them from focusing on your fathers supposed lack of care of his diabetes, (for which few people other than someone like me , is capable of commenting) although I'm sure they'll try!

If you want accountability but feel bad about taking money from the NHS, then I'd lodge a formal complaint and push for resolution to your satisfaction as opposed to taking money.

Poor diabetic control simply means levels and HBA1C not well controlled- can be because control has been difficult to gain on meds/ insulins

Exactly, nobodys fault per se. Just a fact.

Thats what any outcome from legal proceedings will be based on.

Fact is a person with diabetes who develops a foot ulcer has a 50% chance of an amputation and a 30% of dying within 6 months.

The fifth biggest employer in the world?
If this is true what are all of these people doing as we only 21st in the world population wise.
Surely this would mean our health service is better than other countries?

Sorry have been at work all day. Just to come back to the diabetes issue they have already stated on the report

Contributing factors - "poorly controlled diabetes, patient reports only checking his blood sugars once per day". I know this will go against him. The fact was he was always concordant with his insulin regime but could have checked his sugars more often.

I have decided to send the report (RCA) to the Solicitor tomorrow and she is going to have a read and let me know. If there is a chance of suing then I will go ahead, then low payout is irrelevant. Even if it mean my DM can put the money back in the bank she had to spend on burying him it will have been worth it.

I don't think it will work against him.

There are matrons now !

Hello. I am really very sorry to hear about your dad, it’s just heartbreaking. Sadly, I lost my dad in very similar circumstances and as a family we went down the medical negligence route, it has been 3 years since my dad passed away.

The solicitors have been very good, it is a long process but the hardest thing I found was reading through his notes. We as a family don’t want anyone else having to go through our experiences and that is the reason why we chose to take it further.

I can’t really say much more but if you want to talk, vent or ask questions about the process etc, feel free to private message.