AIBU to sue the NHS for medical negligence in which my Dad died.

[Fedupofdiets]

My beloved Dad died last year from multi-organ failure due to sepsis and DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) in an NHS hospital. We had take him to hospital with a deteriorating foot wound secondary to his diabetes and staff failed to spot the signs of sepsis and also failed to do a blood test and discharged him home despite a high blood sugar reading and known cardiac issues. He was readmitted 2 day later as he deteriorated and died from multi organ failure. I raised a complaint which then turned into an investigation from which I had the report in November. I have only recently been able to bring myself to read it - they admit that had had they treated him on the first admission there is a chance his death could have been avoided (the report is very long and very technical but I am a HCP so understand what happened).

I have contacted a Solicitor and given the info they have said that there is evidence that would support a claim of litigation against the trust. I am however in two minds whether to pursue it, on one hand I don't want to add to my pain (I will be the driving force behind the claim my siblings do not know although my Mother fully supports it). The other part of me wants my Fathers name on their lips - he was in his 60s and did not deserve to die alone without his family due to their negligence. My Mother is also working FT in a minimum wage care job (70 this year) and hell yes any money would be great for her.

So my question is WWYD leave it be or pursue a claim?

Yes you should sue – for your mother's sake. Your dad was relatively young which means his death has had a negative financial impact on her. The trust has admitted fault, they've said he could've been saved, they are liable. If it wasn't such a clear-cut case of negligence my answer would be different.

But it has been looked into in her original post the OP clearly states there has been an investigation and a written report and that stated if appropriate treatment had been initiated on his first admission he may not have died. In my experience this report would have been given to the patients family, the staff involved assuming they are still there but definitely the consultant and hopefully the ward manager. It should also be being shared with all medical/nursing staff even if they were not involved for the purposes of staff training. This is how we learn. As I said above procedures/guidelines may have changed because of this (although for things like sepsis it’s written on a national level) or may already have changed because procedures and guidelines change all the time as more research etc is done.
Sueing the NHS which can takes years is unlikely to stop this and similar incidences happening again. I’m not saying don’t sue but the OP needs to be realistic about the outcome.

I never thought I would say this, but after a horrific 6 months of watching my mother being treated with borderline contempt by many HCP, you should sue.

It very much feels that if you don’t make a fuss you get ignored and basic care seems a thing of the past.

I am utterly convinced that the NHS plan for my mother’s cancer path is actually to just leave her die.

I am sorry for your loss OP, I am sorry that on top of your grief you are living with guilt about whether you acted, or spoke up enough. It’s a very heavy burden to carry.

OFGS.

Those of us complaining due to the experiences we have had first hand are not doing so to have a pop at the staff (who i know are often just as frustrated and demoralised as us), we are doing it as advocates for our elderly parents in a lit of cases and baffled by the lack of communication or joined up thinking..

We don't want miracles or the moon on a string, we know our elderly parents will die, but seeing them pushed from pillar to post and their last weeks or months being spent in pain and confusion because "the system" is hard to stomach.

In fact one begins to wonder if past a certain age or level of health complications policy from the top, possibly unwritten of course, is to just hurry them off the mortal coil without it costing too much.

There, I've said it but it echoes those PPs who have said suing is all good and well but the "value" of the OPs poor fathers life would be negligible in terms of financial compensation.

What the hell happened to the world we live in, where it is considered bad form to ask questions and highlight obvious failings in terms of peoples health and care?

Yes we're lucky to have the NHS and I have been grateful for it, however, I have along with other family members been failed by it on more than one occasion.

An example - my DM went to her doctors in her early 70s with lots of unusual digestive symptoms. They put her on the Fodmap diet which she adhered to strictly. For two years she went back and forth until her exhaustion was significantly impacting her life. Eventually the GP suggested HRT and had to do a blood test first. It came back with stage 4 ovarian cancer markers. Or omentum. Or peritoneal. It was too late to tell at that stage. First lit of chemo bought her some time, second lit put her in hospital for a week. She died in my home in April 2020. As soon as lockdown hit aside from community nurses there was no medical input. Macmillan went utterly AWOL. They turned up a few weeks after her death to see how she was.

Not a hospital issue, but GPS are also part of the NHS.

Cancers get missed quite often when early intervention could make a difference.

Bitter? You bet.

All the computerised records systems in the world don't make a difference if the humans operating and accessing them don't update them nor read them - leaving patients family and friends having to repeat ad nauseum to different staff every day things that could be vital to their care in hospital.

It comes to something when you have to get PALs on side within 72 hours of your elderly parent being admitted and then being attempted to discharge even when unsafe, with no discussion or consultation at all with her carer.

Has the solicitor given you an indication of how much damages they think your Mum will get? I think that would guide me as to whether to go through with litigation to be honest. Is there any risk at all that you might get landed with costs?

I’m not being goady I’m genuinely interested in what changes you would make and how you would make them.
Many on here scream privatise it but we have a long history of privatising state owned/run organisations e.g. utilities/rail service and I’m not convinced that it’s better or more cost effective.
Many aspect of care have been privatised including social care especially in England and other areas which I suspect Jo Public is less aware of. I personally have worked with a large area of care that is now run by a FTSE 500 company and profit was quite openly being put above pt care to the detriment of both the patient and those working with the patient. Colleagues say that large areas of in patient psychiatry are also run by the private sector and numerous reports have shown that they are at best not offering a better service that the NHS offered and it wouldnt be unfair for some to say they are offering a worse service.
We have an amazing organisation called the NHS millions of staff employed and trained to do their jobs, whether it be cleaning the floors or resuscitating a new born baby. We have the equipment, buildings, infra structure I am painfully aware we could do with more staff more equipment more beds better social care, better building, but instead of attacking the organisation and saying “they will just get away with it” we need to look at why it’s collapsing, why we are failing patients like the OPs dad why staff are totally demoralised and leaving in droves. The reason is simple I’m afraid and as I said above I’m not stating my opinion Im giving the opinion of the well respected Kjngs Fund (an independent charitable organisation dedicated to improving health care across England) the NHS in England has collapsed due to 9 years of reduction in funding from this government and then the added stress of more people with multiple health needs and the appalling situation in social care.
To quote the late and amazing Desmond Tutu
There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in.”
Those of us who work in or are involved in the the NHS know what’s causing the problem it’s all about money or lack of it and we are becoming increasingly vocal it’s up to the public to support us and challenge our governments of any party to do something about it.

If people want to support the staff and nhs system please support the political party that will improve things.
That's not the Tories.
As I said upthread don't be fooled into thinking privatisation will solve this - it won't - it will just mean you pay as individuals for the same service but those unable to have insurance would have an unpredictable outcome ( think dentistry)
The best Drs are in the NHS or trained in the NHS- only then are they eligible to do any private work. Private work is for safe specific situations, there is no second private system ready to step in and be better. We are the system, we as individuals are already great , but we need to be listened to wrt bed numbers, servers ce provision and funding.
Don't be fooled or the current system will be worse after privatisation due to reduced regulation and outreach companies being potentially poor. We need a joined up system. Don't let the politicians blindside you into believing that having insurance policies will improve anything ,only it will reduce public funding.

I have never and will never vote Tory but I’m sceptical that any other party are brave enough and bold enough to really step up to the plate and really rescue our now completely collapsed NHS.
The British people need to decide what we want if it’s a world beating free to all from cradle to grave NHS then we are going to have to either pay more for it in taxes NI or accept that others areas will have to have a reduction in their funding to achieve it.

Well if people are willing to pay I guess that's one option but I just feel people will think that it's going to be like the current private spots and clinics it won't be it will be the same nhs paid for differently. I'm not sure I trust these devious political parties to increase funding even if people pay from insurance policies. I very much doubt it.

i am so sorry for your loss @Fedupofdiets , if you can continue, then do so, for some help for your dm

My dad passed almost a year ago from Cancer. 8 months prior to being diagnosed he had major surgery which I can't believe didn't highlight the metastasised cancer he had. He passed three weeks after diagnosis.

I've put in a negligence claim, purely for justice for him. He was in his early 60's and has left behind my mum and my sibling who has learning difficulties. I cannot comprehend that all the tests, scans and bloods that were done in the year before he passed didn't flag up any signs of cancer.

I get the NHS in on its knees but it's not right that people are dying. Families are losing loved ones before their time because the system is completely screwed.
Once my Dad was diagnosed he got no help, he was left sitting in a chair waiting for a ward on a bed for 8 hours. He was jaundiced and quite visibly unwell, he was told he would be getting treatment that never happened. I spent 3 weeks trying to advocate for him and trying to get him any kind of help and we got nothing.

Was he seeing NHS podiatrists regularly? I'm an NHS podiatrist. We deal with this type of thing everyday of the week and are more knowledgable than anyone at the hospital and have direct contact with the vascular consultants and endocrinologists. If someone comes into us in this state we get them seen by the right hospital departments straight away. This is why there must be podiatric involvement at all levels. I see sepsis everyday and refer accordingly.

Funding is one thing. People not doing their jobs is still an problem. People using sick leave like an extension of holiday leave is a problem. Poor management is a problem. Unusable systems for patients are a problem

Exactly - and that's precisely why, even if we threw 10x the current spends at the NHS, there's no reason to suppose this would improve it

How easily folk forget (or maybe some aren't old enough to remember) that they've always claimed "lack of resources" - yes, even in the alleged glory days when Labour were running things

It's true that the poor sods at the front line are often simply doing their best but sadly that doesn't always apply to the rest, and unfortunately they're the ones who always resist change, without which this will never be resolved

Do it. They have insurance. Also if it becomes more expensive to pay for claims than fund appropriate staffing levels then that will help change things.

Yesterday I finally told my husband that his brother died of cancer, that was picked up early in 2019, however, they neglected to tell my brother in law , who as a result, died of a 7 week battle last year, devastated doesn't cut it there are no words x

I think it will be stressful, but if you can bear it, sue. The staff involved need retraining / the Trust needs to step up and staff their facilities more fully. It's not OK for the NHS to provide routinely substandard care and let people die alone. Also your mother is 70 and still working; she has lost your father's income as well as his companionship.

This thread is providing a tiny snap shot of what is likely going on for frustrated families countrywide. Just imagine the number of similar stories there are . It's heart breaking and while I accept I'm in a heightened emotional state, I want to say to everyone sharing these harrowing tales I am so sorry and send solidarity.

Going through unnecessary and premature bereavement leaves people without the resilience to deal with addressing blatant failures and without the support or financial means to pursue it.

I'm trying to put together a timeline of the last 12 days covering our concerns. I'm up to day 3 and have written 10 A4 pages already. Problem is between offering practical support to my housebound Dad, and visiting my Step Mum almost daily to placate her I have massive brain fog myself. Because I kept thinking that surely today there would be some sort if progress I don't have the names of the doctors or an accurate perception of the timeline.

I've just had a long conversation with my Dad as SM rang him at 7 am to ask if he had got married yet - he was asleep and this obviously distressed him. He's a nuclear test veteran and made of strong stuff but his stiff upper lip is crumbling.How this can be regarded as SM being "pleasantly confused" beggars belief.

Some of the staff are lively and I have been at pains to express gratitude and understanding of their position. But some have been quite indifferent all round.

My big girl pants could probably accommodate a three ring circus right now but the temptation to start doing vodka shots through the eyeball to give my brain some respite is growing.

All I want is for them to be able to live their last years with some kind of dignity and peace, but apparently computers and bean counters say no.

It used to be, people made complaints but often based on something that couldn't have been changed as I'm not really errors/ failures. Not the failures / system wise are gross. My own brother had a stroke last week and the ambulance took five hours - he missed the window for thrombolysis to dissolve the clot. Unbelievable would never have believed it in this day and age would happen,

NOW the system errors/ failures are gross.

This thread is so awful to read . I’m sorry you went through this OP . Diabetis foot sepsis is so often recognised and referred late or managed on a medical ward where the thought process is about organising X-rays or MRIs or checking arterial supply rather than just asking a surgeon to see the patient and get the pus drained.
DFS spreads like wild fire and is soo serious.
To hear that OPs rather was not admitted or given antibiotics on the first attendance is rubbish care.
Podiatrists are often very good at referring onwards ( particularly in a diabetic foot podistry service) .

I’m glad there has been a complaint and RCA - lessons need to be learnt from this case. And OP don’t hesitate to ask for compensation the effect on your family will be lifelong . Poorly managed diabetes and ischaemic heart disease often mean that the person will not live a long life but these were red flags to treat your father aggressively on the first admission.

You see putting things in perspective, the level of medical care is actually much better these days as us nursing care - the problem is numbers of staff and beds and the fact there aren't enough care home safe places to vacate the beds allowing patient flow out if AE do paramedics stuck in ambulances and doctors assessing Parton ambulance which is not only ridiculous but takes longer. Only the govt funding and listening can fix this. Come on- Fight for us fight for money and for Drs etc to be listened to.

And when there are beds the managers don't force patients out too early or move them round the hospital

@Puzzledandpissedoff oh so it's only the front line staff who deserve any credit? As one of 'the rest' currently trying to cover 9 days of work per week (when I'm supposed to only work 5) it's not a dichotomy situation. nursing staff do also take the piss at time in terms of sick leave etc.

I had a valid claim against the NHS for the absolutely appalling errors made by the local district nurses during the so called "care" of my terminally ill mum. The whole team behaved terribly and their errors resulted in something I can't go into here for the sake of my own sanity. After my mum died everyone jumped on the bandwagon, the local hospice nurse (who couldn't even get mum's name right), the private care agency we ended up employing ourselves, they were all running scared, as they knew there had been a terrible cock up. However, after my mum died all the energy drained out of me and I just didn't have the strength to fight them. They actually wanted to hold a meeting of all the different agencies in my home 2 days after my mum died there. I told them all they were banned from my house and instead, they held the inquiry at the local hospice. I didn't attend, I just made my views known beforehand, mainly that I didn't want it to happen again to another family. The conclusion was that the district nurses changed what they did when first visiting a terminally ill patient at home i.e. Instead of sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee and chatting about their social lives between themselves, whilst treating "lowly" council carers like sh*t, they might actually do what they were supposed to. I was satisfied with the outcome, at the end of the day, nothing was going to change what happened to my darling mum but I hoped we stopped it happening to anyone else.

Also, apologies, meant to say so sorry for the loss of your dad and all you've been through x