Kissing babies

[Cyas]

So I know I’m probably being unreasonable but wanted to talk about my feelings anyway cause I was wondering if it’s just me feeling like this…

We had the don’t kiss baby in the face rule with IL family, who begrudgingly agreed to it - although on their second visits both parents in law and great grandmother kissed her in the face (baby was around 2 months ). Not sure if it was just reflex as she is very cute so I didn’t make a thing out of it, but it’s made me feel very uncomfortable because it feels like your requests and boundaries are being ignored and you can’t trust people to protect your baby’s health just because they want to kiss her?

Now baby is turning 3 months and I think the advice is that it’s now okay because it also builds their immune system? I’ve definitely been out and about with her at baby classes and seeing friends etc although it is still prime virus season. The thing is that I still don’t want anyone but me and my husband kissing the baby. I don’t quite know why, it just feels weird to me that other ppl would be so obsessed with kissing her (IL family have talked about wanting newborn cuddles and kisses, as if the baby was just there to make them feel better), as if she was a little cuddly toy prop for them to use? It’s still winter so I’m still paranoid about her getting ill. She has had sniffles from me before but then I can give her antibodies via breast milk. Maybe it’s also something about consent, and I want to protect baby? So I don’t want to be a kiss and cuddle grinch and ppl are welcome to hold her etc but just sharing how I feel and whether anyone else has experienced something similar…

My 3 week old baby ended up with an 8 day hospital stay due to his grandmother passing on rsv - I caught her kissing him and snuggling him so I get what you feel and I'm extra cautious now . While in hospital there was 15 other under 2's with rsv and bronchitis so although your baby is 3 months it doesn't mean they can't get very poorly .
To be honest I don't really know why a baby/toddler needs other peoples saliva slathered on them - there's lots of ways to get enjoyment and entertain babies that doesn't involve kissing .

I don't know where you're getting your advice from, @Cyas , but as @EmilyTjP says, this is not routine advice.

I don't see the issue in close family showing their affection. As the person above who works in a neonatal unit it isn't dangerous for a baby to be kissed and cuddled. Obviously if someone is ill they shouldn't. But surely it is good for babies to feel loved by people other than their parents.

It's nonsense to talk about consent. The baby can't give consent to their parents either or to be changed , washed etc.
Again it's different when the child is older if they say no to being kissed or cuddled. But surely a well baby experiencing a kiss or cuddle from a well grandparent is a good thing

We are uncomfortable with lip kissing and asked IL not to do it (my own parents would never consider doing it but IL went straight in with lips) it’s your baby and your boundaries. Your baby is not a doll or toy thing - there are plenty of ways of showing affection and love (cuddles, kissing top of head, cooing and chatting, feeding) without needing to plant their germs onto baby’s lips. We harbour more germs in our mouths than in our arses and it’s not only RSV season but you can be developing a cold sore and contagious without even knowing it and the herpes virus could make a young infant very unwell.
if that made me precious then so be it ☺️

I had never even heard of this before Mumsnet and my youngest is only five.

It seems very much a post COVID thing.

Mine were passed around relatives and I'm sure kissed on the head.

There does seem to have been a huge increase in rules around babies and it seems like an awful lot of pressure and sources for division. I also work in medical science and I'm not aware of much peer reviewed research on this, though it isn't my exact field.

Assuming you are a first time mama OP?

I've noticed a lot of responses on mumsnet recently where people are quite brutal and not really very supportive. You've admitted right at the beginning you're probably being unreasonable so no need for others to be so tough.

Ok, so as a newborn absolutely no kisses from anyone, you are so right with that. They are so susceptible and vulnerable that's it's a huge risk. Roll on a few months and their immune system is a little stronger and it's good for baby to pick up a few coughs and colds to make it even stronger. Baby kisses and cuddles are so wonderful and yes people are utterly obsessed with it because it's a feel good factor, those little soft cheeks!!! ❤️ it's also good for baby, affection from others is needed. And when they are old enough it'll make baby smile and giggle (how my heart is melting at the thought of it, currently in the middle of a contact nap with mine). Seeing how my little one reacts when nana or gramps kisses her makes me want to cry with happiness!!!!!!

Obviously if anyone is ill then they stay the heck away, you don't want to pass anything on knowing and on purpose!!

So, just try to relax a little and let your baby be surrounded by kisses and cuddles 🥰

Your baby, your rules. The only person I kiss on the lips is my husband. Not my children and not my grandchildren. I love all of them deeply. I am currently visiting an elderly relative in hospital and when I go to kiss them on the cheek they always put their lips in the way. It turns my stomach.

Just here to say I felt exactly the same way - they don't warn you how protective you're going to feel about your baby around others! You just carried them round for 9 months and it's not nice to feel everyone grabbing around wanting a piece of your baby. You're still in/only just out of the fourth trimester so give yourself a break! Your baby, your boundaries.

I do often wonder about what the Venn diagram between those who accuse loving relatives of using babies as props and not allowing them near the child without a lecture.....and those who 2 years later complain how their family aren't interested in the child.

I've got no skin in the game personally. Like @ComtesseDeSpair I am perfectly happy to have nothing to do with any sprog, but it does hurt to see my lovely Dad not being able to cuddle his grandchild because my SIL is a precious diva who has decided that despite raising three children almost single handedly (my mother died when I was a child) he knows nothing about being a parent.

Ugh i think the problem is people take it soooooo overboard with the rules.

Makes me absolutely cringe when people post "rules" when the baby is born as if they are the only person in the world to give birth.

I think sometimes people look at it the wrong way, my opinion is that if people are taking the time out of their own day to see your baby, cuddle your baby then it should never be seen as a negative ever!

Of course common sense things apply like if your unwel, coldsores etc etc.

And im a mum of 3 young kids so not "out of touch"

If you don’t want kisses, then fair enough, but cuddles? It’s the only way non-parents can really interact with a small baby - what else can they do apart from look at it? Watching my parents cuddle and bond with my baby was amazing.

I LOVE babies, always have. Kissing babies has nothing to do with someone thinking they are toys or props to be played with. I'm sure even you, OP, deep down, you know that can't be true.

People kiss babies because it's an automatic feeling of love and affection towards said baby. And from where I come from, we see babies as angels (just landed on earth, so pure and full of promise).

However, you're entitled to not want people to kiss your baby and can just tell everyone to stay away.

But don't try and paint people in a bad light, by making out they think it's a toy.

Also, people kissing your baby isn't something to do to help them be more immune. Nursery will do that just fine.

I have never heard of this never kissing rule, doctors in family and worked with young children. Hate the thought of lip kissing but never seen anyone do this apart from couples. Totally understand wanting to protect health of new baby and of course parents must be responsible for boundaries and consent, but I would be so wary of distancing close family by making them feel unwanted around your baby or patronising them with lots of rules.
Its really commonsense, but if not obvious, surely it’s possible to be clear about no contact if someone is near infection but a baby relates and build bonds through touch so cuddles and the odd gentle kiss in the head (not face) will build strong emotional social relationships.
As PP said there are lots of people be,moaning a lack of support and you can imagine how easy it would be to distance family with too much heavyhandedness.

I think Yabu its totally normal to want to kiss and cuddle your niece, nephew, grandchild, I don’t get why that’s hard to understand

I think the old people excuse is not always applicable - I didn’t even say anything to my 95yo grandmother and she said when visiting my first newborn ‘I’ll only give him a peck on the top of his head because babies are so vulnerable’. Now he’s a toddler she’s actually said when saying goodbye ‘I don’t believe in forcing children to kiss people’ - the latter example not exactly related to the OP but shows that it’s not necessarily a generational thing.

People can hold/cuddle a baby without kissing them on the lips, it won’t stop them from bonding with or loving the child will it?

YANBU.

@EmilyTjP If you work on neonatal units then you must be aware people can carry the herpes simplex virus without having a visible coldsore.
Having had a friend who lost her daughter in 2007 aged 10 days to this, I am.astounded more health care professionals are still uneducated on the risk of kissing newborns on the face.

You do you, OP. However at 3 months plus, the risks reduce massively and as others have said, if you're going to baby groups, baby will pick up far more there than from relatives.

I thought the no kisses thing when baby is newborn was to do with cold sores- not respiratory infections. My dd2 didn't give us any rules with her ds, in fact she encouraged 'pass the parcel'! Dd1 is expecting her first baby soon - I hope she ( more likely her dh) doesn't give us a list of dos and don'ts.

Just to add I've never even kissed any if my dc on the lips so unlikely to do so with gc.
Also surely rsv transmits through the air (non doctor here) so baby can still catch it without any kisses. I wouldn't visit if I was the slightest bit unwell if baby was newborn.

Stopping kisses on the face - not unreasonable
denying cuddles - that’s being an unreasonable precious twat. Get over yourself. Did your granny never cuddle you? If not then I feel sorry for you.

I agree with no mouth kissing, iv always had the same rule with my 3. Until they are old enough to GIVE the mouth kiss by themselves when asked. But I do think you're being abit precious with the cuddles and kissing on forehead etc. My sister is due her first soon and id be devastated if she was uncomfortable with me cuddling my first niece. Its affectionate and loving, not sure why thats such a bad thing. Sounds like you're a little jealous of others getting cuddles in from your baby, or you just dont like your ILs. I know you said your family haven't met DC yet, but would you feel the same with your own family?

As a mother you will be judged for choices you make for your child, I recommend developing a thick skin and not worrying about what others think, just follow your instincts.

We decided on no kissing for our DC. If you try to say kissing in certain places is allowed there’s room for ambiguity, better to just say no full stop.

I have one set of in-laws who kiss my nephews on the lips which I find utterly gross. We told
them, like we told everyone else, no kissing. When they started kissing our DC hands they were told again.

My other set of in-laws sneak kisses on the top of our DC head, it irritates me but I let it go because they’ve agreed lip kissing is horrid. It does mean I won’t trust them alone with DC though because they’ve shown they don’t listen to boundaries.

Other people’s mouths aren’t clean places, it’s been proven that children’s mouths can be infected with gum disease from the saliva of adults. Then there’s other infections like bugs and viruses.

I was like this with my first, I was very anxious about him being ill so I understand your worries. I have a 4 month old and a 3 year old in nursery now so I can’t stop the illnesses coming in my house and can’t stop my 3 year old kissing his brother. He’s been ill twice already but he’s been really resilient to it, and it’s made me realise babies are a lot more resilient than we think so I hope that makes you feel slightly better. Just make sure the baby gets all their vaccinations. And switching the shower on and having a steam room really helps baby colds. Try not to worry too much although I realise it’s a lot easier said than done. Also just make sure and check in with your gp when they are ill to make sure there’s no chest infections or anything.

If you mean kissing on the lips then yes that's weird & why would relatives do that to a young baby? Kissing on top of the head though is fine.

I was never advised no kisses for either of mine, DS2 is 7wo. Obviously we’re careful
no one sick cuddles him. Breathing on him face to face is more likely to give him a cold than kissing him on the head if you’re ill. I tried to be careful with the toddler touching him the first few days (trying to wash his hands as he was ill) but that went out the window pretty quickly. Did a doctor/nurse actually tell you face to face no kissing or did you just read it on some random website?

I had the same concerns and rules as you, OP, and I think it’s wrong that people don’t respect the boundaries you impose. Older people in particular just seem to do what they want, and they seem to have fewer boundaries with this kind of thing anyway. I once had an older woman, a complete stranger on the street, kiss my baby on the head. I was dumbfounded and she had walked off before I could say anything. This was post-Covid too - mental. In a similar vein, when my son was under 8 weeks old I had to constantly tell my MIL to wash her hands when she visited, after being on public transport etc. It just didn’t seem to go into her brain and it was infuriating. Of course all they do is get defensive.

Stick to your guns as long as you’re uncomfortable with anyone but you and your husband kissing the baby. You won’t feel comfortable until you feel comfortable, you can’t force that. Don’t be embarrassed to enforce your boundaries; be polite but firm. It’s your baby so everyone else can bugger off. And BTW it’s very easy to snuggle a baby without subjecting it to your saliva - I never kiss my friends’ babies.