Have I ruined my son’s sleep for life?

[Havanawinter]

I feel almost ashamed to say this but my 6 year old cannot sleep alone ever and I’m worried I’ve fucked him up massively by trying to be gentle/responsive in my approach to sleep. For background he was never a good sleeper and I tried really hard to keep him in his own bed until he was 18 months old when I was so exhausted I gave up and let him bed share. It’s been like bag ever since, but the deal was we’d always put him to sleep in his own room.

I have no issue with him coming into our room in the night if he wakes but he’s so incapable of being alone he wants someone with him at all times when he’s asleep. If he stirs and sees he’s alone in his room he cries until we go to him. He’s 6 and a half. We get no evening and I can’t go on like this any more. Sometimes he’s up every 5 minutes all evening. I actually feel I’ve done him a disservice by not sleep training him. Is it too late?

My brother never taught his kids to self settle as he didn't like the crying.10 years on and he still looses upto 3 hours of his evening either having to sit with the one of the kids or them getting out of bed.

You'll just have to keep going or be harsh. I assume you've tried audiobooks? (E.G. Borrowbox with your library card).

Big boys go to bed on their own and read a book then turn their own lights out, and big boys get screen time/chocolate/a fun day out. If he wants mummy to sit with him all evening until he goes to sleep then mummy will he too tired to do fun things or make cakes etc...

My DS with adhd/autism doesn't go to sleep until late but he does at least stay in his room and read quietly!

Ahh my 6 year was exactly the same but he has literally just started (mostly) sleeping through the night in his own room after decorating it just after Christmas.
I still lie with him though until he goes to sleep but luckily for me he falls asleep quite quickly.
if he does wake up he just comes and gets in with me.
what about a reward chart?
don’t beat yourself up, you just do whatever you can to get through it.
He will put grow at some point.

I'd stop with the expectation of sleep. I'd say, so you're getting older and mummy has to do some stuff in the evening so, this is how it's going to work. You'll come up to bed, get your teeth brushed and pj's on. I'll be up and I'll read x books/stories/chapters and then I'm going back downstairs.

You don't have to go to sleep, you can read, but, I'm going back down and you're going to rest. I'll check on you a couple of times. And when I come up to bed I'll let you know.

And stick to it. He can still come in in the night, and you've removed the forced falling to sleep bit. He probably will, eventually, fall asleep in that time.

Try it.

I've been there, and you can get him out of it without traumatizing him, you just have to go slow. You need to leave the room while he is awake, but then go back. To start with say you need the loo, then go back. Get him used to the idea that you will leave, but you will return. Literally just for a minute to start with, then build from there. Just got to put the bins out, fold this washing, finish loading the dishwasher. Over time you'll be able to leave him for longer. But you must always go back. When you reach the point where you start to think he might manage on his own now and you don't want to risk disturbing him in case he was about to fall asleep by himself, risk disturbing him and go back. He needs to trust that you're coming back. Eventually you'll get to the point where you can go downstairs for your evening but say you'll check on him on your way to bed. He should be asleep by the time you do, but always check on him just in case. Once he is used to falling asleep on his own, he will have a much better chance of resetting himself in the night if he wakes. Or he may just need you to come and tuck him in, but then be okay. You can change this, he's still young.

My daughter was a great sleeper when tiny but got to about three and couldn’t be on her own. We bedshared until she was about 11 so that everyone got sleep. But. I really didn’t mind tbh. He’ll get there in his own time, just be there for him, he needs you.

My son is the same, he’s 9 and has never liked sleeping on his own. I can count on my hands the nights that he has slept through and stayed in his own bed.

He goes to sleep in his own bed but gets up and crawls in between me and DH at some point during the night. He’s just a snuggle monster - just doesn’t like sleeping alone. I figure he’ll grow out of it eventually!

Don’t worry op he will grow out of it - I know it’s bloody tough. My daughter was in my bed until she was 10, now nearly 15 and won’t even sit on my bed to chat and lives in her room

I second all of this. Exactly what I did / would do again.

Please don't panic, OP. My oldest bed-shared until he was 6 and a half and then suddenly one day he said, "I want to sleep on my own now," and he just did. Now he sleeps alone all night, every night. Your child will get there. (My youngest is 2.5 and still in my bed - we will let him bed-share as long as he likes too.)

Agree with this but I also think you need to talk it over with him, not at bedtime.

explore with him what going on - not a bedtime! Some other time when you are both in a good place.

not ‘why won’t you go to sleep on your own’

and no ‘big boys sleep on their own’ shaming isn’t going g to help.

try ‘I know you like to have one of us there. What bothers you if we’re not there?’

see what he says. Try the book The Explosive Child for good conversation guides.

what is he like during the day? Is he ok being alone / and alone in his room then? Is he anxious in the day or is it just a bedtime thing?

once you have a sense of what’s going on for him in a second conversation say ‘the current situation isn’t working for me, I need some downtime too. So we need to work together on changing it in a way that works for us both’.

to the above poster it sounds like waiting for him to sneak out isn’t working.

so a change to being clearer that you’ll leave and come back to check on him is a good idea.

id start with building that up - can he manage 5 mins alone, 10 mins, 15, 20, 30 over a few nights.

i agree listening to audiobooks is a good idea. Nice gentle stories though - I had one like this and if the story was too scary or exciting she’d lie anwake for hours listening to it.

anyway after he’s done his time himself then after that time you’ go back sit with him while he falls asleep.

have you got the book The Rabbit Who Wants to Fall Asleep? Sorry and hypnosis.

id also try giving him something like valerian or cytonight to help him fall asleep more easily while you are doing this and reset his habits and beliefs.

What about a Yoto or even an Alexa or Google play so he can listen to audio books? A nightlight and a book

Agree with PP just pick your plan, communicate to him and then consistency even if that means 2 weeks of taking him back upstairs every 5mins between 7 and 9pm

Was going to say the same as @AlwaysFreezing

He goes up at a sensible time with routine of story etc then put on an audiobook (kids Alexa is good for those when on offer). Even if he doesn't sleep he's big enough to stay in his room.

You could sit upstairs for the first week so he knows you are there.

It's all well and good saying he'll be fine but it doesn't sound like you are. You are going to need to accept a couple of weeks of difficult evenings to get to where you need to be.

Honestly, mine were similar - they left me for a bit - around 10 - and now at 15 DD comes back when she needs my company.

you will miss it - and enjoy it in equal measure.

At 6 you can say - I need at least 2 hours with your dad. You can listen to story tapes, read a book - do whatever you like that is calm in your room. BUT not come and find me - for 2 hours. If he is going to end up in your bed - then say 'go to my bed if you like - but you are not allowed to come between X and Y.

My son is now 9 and we’re just now getting to the point he’ll sleep alone consistently. I don’t think it’s unusual, and I don’t think you’ve broken his sleep forever. If he needs you he needs you.

You definitely haven’t. We had years of ds needing one of us to sit with him until he fell asleep, then we managed to get him to allow us to sit in our room (right next door to his) with the door open till he fell asleep. At times I honestly thought he would never be independent! He hit about 10/11 and a switch flipped and he was all of a sudden fine.

Don’t worry at all, your dc will grow out of it.

Don’t worry op, he won’t want to sleep with you forever. DS is 19 now and is no longer interested in sleeping with us.
He stopped coming into our bed every night by 6/7 ( he would sneak in the morning but never woke us up) but did occasionally invade if he had a bad dream.
He developed a form of epilepsy at around 7 and was having partial seizures as he went to sleep so for some time I would watch TV in our room until he had been asleep for 30mins. The seizures were not frequent but we had to watch him while they happened in case he suffocated himself.
He grew out of them by 12. We were very relaxed about sleeping arrangements as a result, his safety was more important, we have a 6ft bed so it never caused sleep deprivation. He also knew not to wake us up, we would just wake up with him asleep between us. You can loose a lot of sleep trying to persuade them to go back to their own bed.
He's more likely to share a bed with one of his mates after a night out nowadays. They all play rugby together so are very comfortable with physical contact. Rugby players are a bit too touchy feely though.
As my husbands grandmother said “I’ve never met an 18yr old that still sleeps with his parents”.

I had the same issues with my 3.5 year old until a month ago, then did some gentle sleep training on the advice of our health visitor as we have another baby on the way. I was skeptical, but miraculously it worked within a few nights! The first night was tough though, so if you're going to do it I'd recommend hanging in there.

The biggest thing is to get them falling asleep on there own, as otherwise they wake in the night, notice you're not there and that everything's changed. This shocks them awake and they don't know how to resettle on their own.

The main things we did were:

• change his bedtime routine entirely, so he didn't notice the 'bad' changes so much. So maybe read a story in a different place, put PJ's on in the bathroom instead of bedroom, whatever you think would make it seem different.

-used a yoto player on the "sleep sounds" night radio setting while reading stories in his room to help him wind down.

• we then settle him into bed with a teddy, and put an audiobook on the yoto player (Ladybird Sleep Tales works for us)

-me or DP will then have a 2 min cuddle and chat with him whilst he winds down in bed - but make sure we're next to, not in, his bed for this.

• we then pop out to "fold washing"/"nip to the loo" etc but reassure him we'll be nearby if he needs us, and pop back in every few minutes. To begin with he probably won't like this, so you'll need to come back almost immediately, and provide lots of reassurance/keep it cheerful. It may take a while to begin with, but DS will now fall asleep on his own within a few minutes listening to his audiobook.

-once he's asleep, we put the yoto back onto the sleepsounds radio setting all night on a low volume. It's basically child friendly classical music and means if he wakes in the night the room feels the same as it did when he fell asleep, which helps him resettle on his own.

Hope this helps! The first few nights you may need to go into his room to help him back to sleep, but try putting the stories back on and sitting next to, not in, the bed. We also use a gro clock so DS knows when it's morning. Lots of praise/chocolate buttons for staying in bed helps too!

Our oldest is almost 6 and we had a similar problem. We moved house, he had a nice big bedroom with a double bed, but he kept saying he was scared of his room, there were ghosts etc. After various talks with him we think what happened was one of the cats had been under his bed one night and he’d heard noises etc and it really scared him. He kept having bad dreams, crying in the night, wanting someone to sleep with him.
Eventually he asked if he could sleep in his younger brother’s room. So now they share a room and he’s not scared at night. He’s still scared of the dark generally though and he will ask for someone to lay with him til he falls asleep, but will accept it if we say no and doesn’t come out of his room. We also just bought him a desk lamp for his bedside table so he can read his books before he goes to sleep. And he likes to turn the lamp so it points directly at his face as he falls asleep. I’m sure eventually they’ll want their own space, but for now they love sharing a room.

This thread terrifies me. Here’s me hoping to get my 4 month old into his own room in the next few months…. Will it take years??

It doesn't have to.

If it helps (idk if it does sorry!) but my parents sleep trained me as a baby, I slept perfectly until I was 4yo and then did basically as you describe. Every time they tried something that worked to keep me in my bed, I'd do something else. I HATED being alone in my room, can't explain why. What eventually worked was my mum playing a tape of stories being read (so I guess audiobooks or a yoto would be the modern equivalent) that lasted 3 hours I think it was, and I wasn't allowed to leave my bedroom while the tape was playing but if I woke and the tape was off then I was 100% allowed to go and find my parents if I wanted to or I was allowed to restart the tape. It did get me hooked on needing noise to fall asleep (as an adult I love wave sounds) but honestly I don't think it is a huge deal as I like listening to stuff to fall asleep but don't NEED it. I didn't like the rule at first when my parents introduced it btw! I had many strops and was quite upset, but then I realised that I actually liked listening to the stories etc so it wasn't so bad. My parents didn't stay with me while I fell asleep though, the message was "you don't have to sleep in here, but you need to stay in here until the tape finishes"

I think a lot of people mix up their kids needs with things they want.

Why is a 6 year old so afraid, despite being in a safe warm bed, at home, with parents downstairs? Thats not secure attachment.

Here’s me hoping to get my 4 month old into his own room in the next few months…. Will it take years??

No! Both my kids just go to sleep happily in their own rooms and stay there! We have none of this crap and never have had.

Totally untrue that bed-sharing is a sign of insecure attachment. Of course it's possible for your child to sleep happily in their own bed, but bed-sharing is the normal human way of sleeping across history and cultures (like all mammals). It is not a sign of pathology - it is how all infant mammals have slept for most of history. Modern western culture is the exception, not the rule.

Gradual withdrawal works really well in these situations, but it does take a few weeks. First week is lying down with him, next is sitting on the bed, then sitting by the bed, by the door, top of the stairs, bottom of the stairs turn just pretending you're there 😉