AIBU to want to know what happened? Trigger warning: possible child abuse

[HairEyebrowsLipsEtc]

Name changed as potentially identifying and don’t want this linked to other posts….

I moved to a lovely village last year with DH and DDs - lovely and close knit community, making lots of friends, DDs loving village life, I’ve joined the PTA etc - all very idyllic, but I found out from one of my new friends that one of the other parents in the village was charged by the police with child sexual exploitation a few years ago. Apparently he was arrested (and it was covered by local news at the time) and went to court, but found not guilty - but although I can find media stories about his arrest, I can’t find any information about the trial.

I really want to find out what happened. DD2 is becoming friends with this man’s DD and I don’t know what to do. Everyone in the village seems determined that he’s not guilty because that was the outcome in court, but without knowing why he was found not guilty I can’t trust this - lack of evidence doesn’t equal lack of guilt, and the police had enough confidence at the time he was arrested to publicise it, so they must have been fairly confident of his guilt? I’ve tried asking my friend but she seemed annoyed with me for asking and it’s so difficult because she allows her children to go to his house to play with his daughter, it must seem like I’m judging her decisions by asking more about him. But I can’t let it lie - DD2 is primary age and asking to go over there, and I can’t explain to her the real reason I won’t allow it. I feel so bad for this man’s DD who seems like a lovely girl and who DD2 gets on really well with ☹️

So to get to my AIBU - am I unreasonable to want to see some sort of transcript of this man’s trial, so I can judge whether he could be a risk to DD2? I’ve tried searching and assumed this would be in the public domain but can’t find anything, only the media reports from when he was first arrested. If I’m not being unreasonable to want this information, where can I find it?

Sounds like he's gotten all of the details wiped from the Internet given he was found not guilty. As I say not guilty, but also not innocent!
Can you talk to local police or ask newspapers for copies of their papers with articles relating to it.
It's your child, trust no one with her.
If you need be honest with your man, if they ask your child over, just say I'm very sorry for your experience but I don't care who I insult, offend or hurt, I cannot risk my daughters safety in the same way you wouldn't. Happy to have your daughter to my house but I understand if you feel you don't know us enough either.

It probably didn't even make it to 'trial'

I’ve wondered that as well @InAnotherLifetimeMaybe but my friend is adamant that he was found not guilty, so surely there must have been - but then why can’t I find anything about it?! Is it really possible to have it wiped from the internet @DNLove ? I’ve thought about asking the police but I don’t know if they’d tell me and I’d be worried that they might inform him that I’ve been asking - does anyone know if they would do this?

There's Sarah's law, which means you can ask the police about the history of someone with close contact with your child... I'm not sure this would count but you could try.

Personally, no way would I be allowing my own child any unsupervised contact with this bloke. And if our kids became friends I'd be having an age appropriate discussion how not everyone who is a parent is always right etc, to open the door for them to speak to me about anything that makes them uncomfortable.

As above, do a Sarah’s law request with the police. If they feel your daughter is likely to come to harm they will disclose to you.
For the time being could you invite his child back to your house so your dd still sees her friend?

Thank you for the advice about Sarah’s law - would he be told that I’d asked for this information? Everyone here seems so determined that he’s not guilty and I don’t think it would go down well if people found out I was questioning it ☹️

Sarah's law isn't a catch all. Not entirely sure but I think it only shows convictions. Which this is not.

In our judicial system the burden of proof is 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. This is an extremely high threshold and therefore it is not easy to be found guilty in court. Especially if evidence is one word against another for example. Whilst this is great and fair for the accused, and definitely prevents people being wrongly found guilty, it absolutely unequivocally allows for SO MANY people to be found not guilty despite committing the crime.

In order for a case to even GET to court, the police AND CPS have to decide that there is a 'realistic prospect of conviction'.

Based on this, there is not a chance in hell I'd be letting my kids go there. Ever. People don't like to think ill of others, especially high standing members of the community and it is often 'easier' to believe otherwise, since everyone else is.

Please trust your gut.

from a personal and somewhat professional perspective, I would say that in a lot of cases , if they are charged and it goes to trial, that's a fair chance they're guilty, even if they get found not guilty.

Thank you @firstpregnancy1 thats exactly my thinking as well, if there was enough evidence to publicise the arrest and take it to trial, that’s surely a lot of evidence!

Thats why I want to be able to see what actually happened in the trial, so I can make up my own mind about the evidence even if it wasn’t enough to get a conviction. I’m so shocked that it’s not a matter of public record and that someone could get it ‘wiped’ from internet searches.

Youre all right though that I need to protect my DD first and foremost and if I can’t find out what happened at the trial then I just need to keep our distance from this family. I’m so sad that this lovely community that I thought we’d moved to isn’t what I thought it was.

Try the library they have copies of newspapers

I had a very similar situation, I applied to the courts for the transcript and they told me it would cost over £3k to get them.

I haven’t allowed any unsupervised contact for this reason.

That’s shocking @WinteryWondery i don’t understand how that can be fair when trials are meant to be done in the public interest! Did you know which court the person was tried in or did you have a way to find out? I don’t know which court my neighbour was tried in - I’ve tried searching for reports from local courts but can’t find it and I’m wondering if it’s because the trial took place further away.

I knew which court and when as I attended for part of it although the newspaper articles are still online and can be googled so not sure how you’d find out if you don’t know much info.

You could still try Sarah's law. It would at least serve a purpose in that if he has been convicted of anything similar, it would highlight it and be useful and concrete damning evidence to share with other members of your community who are allowing their children unsupervised contact. Quite how you'd manage that I don't know, in these situations unfortunately the messenger often fares worse.

In your shoes I would try Sarah's law and maybe a phone call to the police force who dealt with it (if you know it, if not, your local police).

It's horrifying to think how many sexual offenders there are but in reality, there are far far more than we even care to think of. It's sickeningly rife.

I wouldn't ostracise the family, just do allow your children unsupervised access.

Horrible situation to be in.

Of course there is the chance he is innocent. Innocent of this crime maybe, but not innocent of everything as there was enough to charge and bring him to trial.

If there was any concerns with him around children then surely he would not be looking after his own child.

However on your situation I would not allow any contact aswell. Unfortunately not getting convicted does not mean he is completely innocent.

How long ago was this?

Sarah's Law would not apply, as your DD does not need to have any un supervised contact with this man. If he has contact with his own children then he is not considered a risk however its hard to judge without the full details. Does he live alone with his child? Could you just invite the little girl to your house instead?

Not guilty is not innocent in my eyes, could be that the case was dropped for example. I’d let the child come over to my house but absolutely wouldn’t allow them there.

Do you have a local PCSO? I live in a small town and we have a couple of PCSOs so they would likely know or be able to find the info out.

@HairEyebrowsLipsEtc I hope you or your family never have a brush with the law, because dear christ, what if you were innocent yet people kept trying to find out how you can possibly be innocent because they don't believe it
You've said the most of the village believe him innocent yet that's not enough
People didn't believe the post-office people were innocent either, look what happened there

When abusive men are comparatively rarely charged I would not let me child go there. If innocent then that should be very understandable to him and after all would make no particular difference.

Its not quite the same is it?

The op just wants further information so she can make her own decision. This is a man charged with sexual offences against children, with enough evidence that the CPS allowed it to go to court. Would you just accept his innocence and send your young child to his house because everyone else thinks he’s innocent?

To answer a few questions - I don’t know exactly when it was but I’m fairly certain within the last nine years because i think it was when he already had his DD from what I’ve heard. But not within last year as we moved to the village almost a year ago. He still lives with his DD and DW and this does make me question things as surely his DW would leave if there was strong evidence? But my friend told me that he wasn’t charged with abusing children himself, but organising for others to abuse them. From what I’ve seen in the news of other cases I wonder if it’s harder to get a conviction for this. Again, this is why I just want to be able to read for myself what the evidence was.

i know he could be innocent @quisensoucie i just want to know what the evidence was because I find it so strange that it was enough to arrest him and take him to trial. It’s horrible but I wonder whether he’s not seen as a risk to his own child because he wasn’t the one doing the abusing and that’s part of the reason everyone defends him.

I think the fact he is still living with his children should give you reassurance, as regardless of the court outcome, if there was real belief that he's a current risk to children, he wouldn't be allowed unsupervised access.

That’s quite an optimistic take and I’m sure there’s women on here who can attest to abusive men being given access to their child.

Generally speaking at primary stage my kids never went inside a house I’d not been in myself and didn’t have an established relationship with the parents. But we live in a town and I’m sure village life has different expectations which are trickier to go against.

A lot of armchair detectives here convinced of the man's guilt without any knowledge of the case whatsoever, let's just hope to god they never end up on a jury because there's little chance of a fair trial.

So this man has managed to convince a sworn in jury and an entire village that he was not guilty?

Just because the police had enough evidence to prepare a file for the CPS does not mean they were convinced of his guilt. It doesn't work like that. It's not the job of the police to decide guilt. That's the job of a jury and based on the evidence the police provided the jury, they found him not guilty.

But if course, he's still guilty as sin. Seriously OP, a crown jury found him not guilty. The entire village believes he was innocent. But you want to know all the sordid details?

If you cannot handle the thought that someone was found not guilty, then don't let your child pay with theirs. But going round trying to find out all the juicy details and internet stalking the man based on something that isn't even anything to do with you? You have way too much time on your hands. Find a hobby.

People like you are the reason innocent people spend their lives persecuted and gossiped about. It's none of your business. If you think the court was wrong and the entire village has been hoodwinked then just keep away from the family and get on with your own life.