To expect my child to be taught by a teacher with a degree in that subject?

[northlundunmum]

My child is in year 8 and in their school
has “Humanities” which is history and geography combined rather than taught separately- not great in my view but ok. However, this year they are being taught by a music teacher. No doubt a very talented musician but according to my child they admit not being very good at teaching history or geography.

I do understand there are teacher shortages and sometimes some teachers will have to cover for others but this seems to be a permanent arrangement at least for this year.

Does anybody know what the DfE / Ofsted rules / guidance are on this? I understand you have to have a degree in a subject in order to train to teach it at secondary level (or at least used to) - does that not extend to actually teaching the subject in school?

Grateful for advice from anyone who knows the law / regulations here as want to approach the school about it and want to be clear what’s reasonable to expect and what they should in fact be doing according to govt policy.

Thank you!

While subject knowledge is important, there is a lot more to being a good teacher than that. Schools will have plans / syllabus etc, which will inform the content of lessons. Knowledge can also be researched.

It isn't compulsory. A family member is a science teacher and doesn't have a science degree. She knows the curriculum material because she's read it and learnt it but her actual knowledge of science is pretty poor in my opinion.

This.

One of ours didn't have a teacher at all for a couple of months. Just random clueless covers who had no work to set

The teacher shortage is quite real and definitely having an impact on learning.

Edit to add: and this is in year 11

Yeah, university teaching/lecturing is a whole different ballgame to secondary school, as I’m sure you’re aware. Remember most teenagers don’t want to be there, aren’t interested in what you have to say and will do the bare minimum if you let them get away with it! Before you even start explaining something you need to get them in a place where they’re receptive and ready to learn - that’s the difficult bit.

I agree that highly qualified/academic people would be great candidates for teaching, but there’s no way you could just shove them in a school without any training.

While you aren't wrong that Year 8s should be taught by someone who knows the subject. There is a major crisis happening that you are lucky to have a teacher at all. DC1 school often just have baby sitters in and they aren't teaching at all. She's spent a term for technology doing no technology work.

Baby sitters meaning cover teachers. They don't do any work and is just there to make sure they are under safe ratios.

It's not ideal but with a massive recruitment and retention crisis in Education, it's not surprising 😔 hopefully once your child starts GSCE courses next year they will have the correct specialist teacher.

A teacher with QTS is qualified to teach in any subject. Certainly ideally a teacher at secondary school should have a degree in the subject they are teaching but it isn't a requirement.
There is an acute teacher shortage at the moment and schools are also struggling financially. Many are using teachers without qualified status just to get by. It sounds as though at least your child's teacher is a qualified teacher.
So I think you are not being unreasonable to want more but you are being unreasonable if you are blaming the school.

Wait till she gets to Y11 and doesn’t have a qualified teacher in her GCSE subjects. Wait till she gets to A-level and has to teach herself because there is no teacher at all.

That is what “teacher shortages” means. And these things are happening right now, yet the situation is set to only get worse.

Being brilliantly qualified in a subject doesn't necessarily mean you are good at teaching it. A brilliant mathematician, for example, might not be able to understand why a student (like me) might not understand the maths. A friend of mine had a chemistry degree and actually did the PGCE but couldn't be bothered trying to motivate students who weren't interested. It's not for everybody.

About science, maths and ICT teachers. I often see teachers misunderstanding basic concept from work they have handed out. I suspect many aren't majors in science or maths. DH has a physics degree and I have an engineering one. We are pretty clued up with science and maths knowledge.

I would definitely prefer someone with QTS. Having knowledge of a subject doesn't mean you can teach it.

Our kid's secondary is currently recruiting teachers for art & photography, economics and business, design tech, any science, maths, history, geography and a head of ICT. They are also recruiting completely unqualified cover supervisors (multiple) to fill in for short term absences...

It's a disaster. And that's in a run of the mill not great, not awful secondary.

When I was a supply teacher I taught lots of subjects to year 8 students, most memorably French a subject in which I only have an O Level.

Then she must have lots of unfillable vacancies. None of my maths teacher trainees have had maths degrees. Engineering, biology, psychology, even English. Not maths.

I wouldn't bank on that either, frankly.

@C1N1C I occasionally consider going into teaching - no PhD but a long career in something relevant. I'd personally want to be properly trained before I was let loose on a class - would be too stressful otherwise.

@noblegiraffe I would think Engineering, Physics or indeed any physical science grad can easily teach up to A level maths. We all have A level mathematics and have done a lot more maths in our degrees.

I'd be very surprised if a school insists on maths degree for teaching maths. They might not even find anyone who has a physical science major.

That’s pretty bad, both the combined lessons, and the teachers lack of enthusiasm..and the fact that they’re a music teacher!! I guess just find out what they’re doing and do some extra stuff at home.
Is it a state school though? At least you aren’t paying!

This is what the teacher shortage looks like. Even before the shortage got this bad, teachers covered other subjects. I have a PGCE and a PhD so I taught my own specialism at A Level and GCSE, but I had to teach several other subjects to Yr 7, 8 and 9 pupils. I'd have been able to turn my hand to most things except music tbh. This was a few years ago though, and I went into industry to escape!

Where do you think the school will magic up this teacher from?

If its a state school they are paying through their tax. Concerned parents should contact their MP about this. Teaching used to be a popular career, its not now.

A shortage of staff, regardless of level of qualification or subject knowledge, pressures on finding; makes me wonder how OFSTED are assessing sufficient schools as at least adequate to not be uncovering a societal failure.,

The time to discover you hate teaching/ loathe children/ can’t teach for toffee is during training, not when you have been recruited by a school, and given a timetable and a syllabus. A PhD is a very specific qualification that says little about you, your personality or your ability to convey knowledge to young people.

If you are interested in teaching then try doing some volunteer coaching somewhere to see if it is something you can do and would enjoy, then do the training which will give you a qualification you can use in any school and which will enhance career prospects in the future.