To try Ferber method?

[ChamomileHoneyTea]

LO is 7.5 months now and I am on my knees with sleep deprivation. We co-slept until he was 7 months at which point I couldn’t deal with it. For the last 3 weeks I’ve been doing gradual retreat to coincide with moving him into his own room. We had one good night where he almost slept through about a week ago but since then nothing. He falls asleep independently for naps and at bedtime but still wakes constantly in the night, usually 4-6 times a night, and is hard to settle. Aibu to abandon this gentle method and try Ferber?

Awesome

Dr Spock was all the thing when my mum had me and anyway she was a very loving firm and no nonsense kind of mother. Which meant I was put in my cot in my room very firmly indeed at sleep and nap times. Consequence for me as an adult is that I could sleep on a clothes line.
When I became a mum, I wasn't as strict as that, but my kids did get to cry it out a bit because of my habit of sleeping like the dead. My husband worked night shifts at the time, and I remember him nudging me awake on his nights off so I could sort the baby (in a carrycot next to our bed!) out - I was EBF and we didn't pump in those days. We also evicted kids from the parents room rather earlier than is recommended these days, so then it took even longer to rouse me and get me cot side. Don't know for sure, but don't think any of us have been damaged.

It happened to my child. It’s horrific finding them like that. I thought I was doing the best. On the third night after the crying stopped we were pleased it seemed to be working and when in and he was sleeping covered in vomit.

That’s the day I knew my instincts were right and it wasn’t for us. I’m so glad I only did three nights before realising.

People always reference babies crying until they vomit etc but I’ve never heard of that in real life among my friends who did Ferber.

It would be unusual if people did admit to purposefully leaving their young baby to cry alone to the point they vomited. There's a reason why you haven't heard anyone talking about it happening while you're all together having a nice time at baby sensory group.

We did Ferber at around the same age. It was transformative. Teaching a baby that you’ll always come back while encouraging them to self soothe made sense to us, and it took three nights of lengthening intervals before she slept through. She’s 6.5 years old now and still a great sleeper, with no signs of long term psychological damage anti-sleep trainers usually predict. We’re always there when she needs us and we treasure the predictable sleep that keeps us sane.

I have very detailed spreadsheets from using the Ferber method with our first born so we could see the progress we made in four nights. I will put my hand up and say that it was the best thing we'd ever done for our family.

Apart from when she is sick, three years on and our DD still sleeps through the night and wakes up at the gloriously social time of 7:45am.

@eldorado02 "Teaching a baby that you’ll always come back while encouraging them to self soothe made sense to us".

I don't really understand this. How can you be teaching your baby you'll "always come back" if when they cry then fall asleep, you haven't come back.

If your partner saw you crying and left you to it saying you should "learn to self soothe", how would that make you feel?

Just prefacing with this: Ferber Method is not the same as Cry It Out.

if you are going to use the method (or criticize it), I highly recommend reading the book, as it explains all of the psychology and reasoning behind the method. It also teaches you how to use the method in a variety of different situations.

I used Ferber Method and within a week, my son went from waking every 45 minutes (day and night for 6 months solid), screaming, and only going back to sleep by breastfeeding with me sitting up, to sleeping 12 hours with one wake for a feed. We were all miserable before we used this method because of the absolute exhaustion, and I wasn't a good enough parent because I could barely stay awake. I nearly dropped my son while breastfeeding. We were all much happier after, and my DS actually started crying less in the daytime because he was well-rested.

You are not abandoning your baby or teaching them that you won't respond to their cries. The gradual increase in wait time before returning for reassurance that you are there allows the baby to learn how to go to sleep without being held. By doing this, when the baby wakes in the night and is not hungry, he can go back to sleep and connect his sleep cycle. By coming on to reassure after 3 minutes, then 5, then 7, then 10, the baby is still comforted and aware that his caregiver will answer him.

Because that is the Ferber method - you leave them for increasing periods, but always come back to reassure them. Didn’t you know that? Maybe you should read about it a bit further to become familiar with it. I think the longest period we left our daughter to whinge was 3 minutes on the first night, but others might have different experiences.

I did know that, thanks. The point is, that if your child is "whinging"/crying then falls asleep, you haven't actually come back before they've given up on you.

Did you have a response to the point about self soothing?

Did Ferber method for my two at 5 months, worked really well, full night sleep after 3 nights. Just make sure no one is unwell (including you). And no, my children who are 11 and 5 now are not psychologically damaged and are still great sleepers. The notion that one must be up and down like a yoyo with a baby older than 6 months because “parenting is hard” is ridiculous to me.

Yes, because the only people I talk to are strangers at baby sensory. I don't have any proper relationships at all where we would discuss these things.

Also, I didn't just mean people who successfully used Ferber. Even people I know who say didn't work for them (usually people who chose not to see it through past the first night but others too) didn't have babies crying to the point of vomiting.

thanks all, so I’ve implemented the routine changes and after a month of persevering with the gentle sleep training baby is waking 3-4 times a night. Is this amount of wakeups considered normal at 8 months?

@ChamomileHoneyTea I would expect an 8-month-old to sleep with only 1-2 wakes, but no two children are the same.

When you say "gentle sleep training", what strategies have you implemented?

Hard to tell. I think abandon the idea of what's normal, because there is too much variation. It's an improvement from where you were, yes? Are you finding it more manageable or do you want to push for more?

My children did wake up that much at 8mo, but I didn't sleep train. I kept them in bed with me as I found that the easiest way to manage.

@MooseBreath so he falls asleep for naps and bedtime on his own which is great. When he wakes in the night I go in and BF then place him down in his crib and leave (I might shush and place my hand on his chest firmly for a few mins if he won’t settle). That’s my version of gentle sleep training really. (Prior to this we were cosleeping so it’s a miracle he spends the entire night in his own room)

This is obviously just my opinion (I am not an expert, nor do I know you or your baby), but I don't think an 8-month-old still needs 3 or 4 breastfeeds each night. I think using a method like Ferber that works for you would be good for both you and your baby.

@MooseBreath as he falls asleep on his own, would I start the Ferber method at the first night wake then?

Yes. Once he falls asleep after the night wake, you'd start again from the beginning with 3 minutes on the first night (even if it's the 3rd night wake. On night 2, start at 5 minutes regardless of the number of wakes.

I suspect it will only take a night or two for him to sleep through. I would maybe recommend a dream feed when you go to bed, just so you're ruling out hunger.

4 to 6 wakes ups a night is totally normal for a 7.5 month baby. It doesnt last forever. Motherhood is hard. Suck it up.

I don't think 4 to 6 wake ups per night is normal for most babies, definitely not by 7.5 months. Approximately 2/3 babies sleep through at 6 months according to research.

Op, do what you need to do. I nannied a little one who sleep was dreadful. She'd sleep no more than 2 hours at a time overnight and not much during the day. She was miserable and grouchy because she was so tired all the time.
At about that age, her parents decided to try cry it out. They took a week off work to do it. When I came back after the week, she was sleeping 8-10 hours overnight and a 2 hour nap in the afternoon standardly, and was a much happier baby for it, and her development shot forward because she wasn't too tired to do anything.
They said the week was horrific; they probably cried as much as she did, if not more, but it was worth it.
She's now a very well adjusted adult with babies of her own.

Agree with this. If I could go back in time and try this method, I would. Our eldest daughter still sleeps badly and I often wonder if she didn't learn how to settle herself. We tried a firmer approach with our second and she has no sleep issues. It might not be all down to what we did or didn't do, but it probably has a bearing. And as PPs say, you can't parent (or do anything) well when you're sleep deprived.

Jumping onto this one as I'm at my wits end myself - how did 'ferberizing' go?
I'm goggling like mad cause I need to do something similar.
Little one is 5.5 months, but has been on solids now for near 2 months (weaned under HV advice) waking up 10 times a night, taking a bottle now out of pure habit.

I do think it works - my little one is 5.5 months and we'd had enough too, up every 30mins during the night.
We have been trying the Ferber method for 1 week now, and last night he woke once, for a couple of mins and back over.
He was waking in the middle of the night for a bottle out of pure habit cause is absolutely getting enough during the day.

Ferber is awful. There are SO many more gentle types of sleep training. Please don't leave your baby in a room on their own in the dark to cry.

We didn't do Ferber, but another similar method.

It took 25m to go to bed on the first night we did it, and two 5m goes of night settles that night.

Half of those timeframes involved one of us cuddling and soothing him, so only about 20 or so minutes of being alone, only about half of which he spent crying.

When he cries in the night, we go to comfort him. Fortunately that is now rare.

Do you really believe that my son learned that no one is coming for him over the course of twenty minutes alone, versus months and months and months of cosleeping, contact naps, cuddles in the day, and comforting him during every day when he needs it? Surely he'd never cry if he had so little faith in me coming for him?