DH's secrets and lies

[UnicornAndSparkles]

I'll preface this with the fact that DH is generally a wonderful husband and father. He in incredibly loving and patient and generous and will always go out of his way to be a real 50/50 partner, be that with early starts, sharing the parental load as best we can (he'll always get up early with the kids for instance, and does most of the nursery drop offs and pick ups despite working full time). We've been married for almost 15 years and he is my absolute rock.

But. He has lied to me, on multiple occasions, about finances. At first it was to cover up a drinking problem, which I obviously knew he had, but he wasn't ready to admit to. With a lot of support from myself and others he has overcome and is now 4yrs sober. Something I am hugely proud of him for. But that drinking problem got him into significant debt which he didn't reveal to me. When he got sober he came clean and told me of the loan and credit card debt, totalling around 10k, all repayable within 2y he said. 2y came and went and I presumed it was paid. It's now 2y on and I find out it's not repaid and there's still around 10k to repay so there must have been significantly more at the outset. His company has recently gone bust and he hasn't been paid a salary for around 6m. He initially kept this from me for 2 months, contributing to the family finances as he usually would but only now I find out it was through a credit card. Obviously this was unsustainable and we he revealed the issue we started paying all the bills from our savings, which are almost depleted. I earn money too but not as much as he does, and my salary isn't enough to cover the mortgage and childcare costs. He put off finding a new job as he was sure the money would come in. It didn't and he has admitted he should have got a new job months ago rather than only starting to look now, when we have little savings left to fall back on. He's also revealed that he's been living in his overdraft for 3y. Again, something he kept from me.

He was on a 90k salary, which to me is a huge amount, but is so bad with money that he couldn't budget his spendings. He lives a champagne lifestyle, which I presumed was because he could, but it's become apparent that he couldn't afford half of it. I, on the other hand, would rather save than spend. It gives me far more of a thrill to see savings mounting up and shop in the likes of new look than it does to buy fancy things and not have any savings. Of course I enjoyed the holidays and all the rest of the things DH was spending money on, but only because I thought he could afford it and it was never overly lavish. My salary is far below his and I obviously had a very naive view of what 90k can afford, as it's clearly not the lifestyle we've enjoyed. He's always been this way, his family joke he was always awful with money. But the issue is the lies he's told me, the fact that he's kept the loan amount and credit card bills and overdraft secret from me, whilst the debt mounts up and up. We've always said we share finances and so it came as a shock that he wasn't being open and honest with me. He says he was embarrassed about the whole thing but now I don't feel I can trust him with money and am questionning whether he really does earn £90k or that's an exaggeration, whether the total debt is bigger than the 20k he's admitted to (he initially said it was 8-10k), whether there are more credit cards with payments due. It really worries me as we share a mortgage and have two children.

The crux is I asked him to prove he was being honest with me about the level of debt he now admits to. I've asked to see bank statements showing the figures and the repayment plan. But he won't show me. AIBU? We are very close to having to ask my grandfather to help us with money when our savings run out as until he starts getting paid again my salary cannot cover all of the outgoings (grandfather is in a position to help, financially, and has offered to do so as he is aware that we are living off our savings). Or we default on the mortgage. I cannot believe we're in this situation. I feel cross that he hasn't been honest with me and cross that he didn't up sticks and get a paying job sooner when he realised the company was going bust, but I can't turn back the clock and he recognises he's been a fool. But am I being unreasonable to not be able to trust him with the finances and to want to see the debt in black and white? Or is he unreasonable not to show me the level of debt he (and realistically "we" as we are a partnership) owe?

Hi op, I'm a similar situation as you. Not to the scale by any means, but the debt and continued lies. I've had enough 🥲

OP, if you are still reading, please go to your Granddad and tell him EVERYTHING. You need support and I think he would be a very good ally for you as you sound close. You need somebody in your corner who is not working against you at every turn.

Please don't leave this any longer, you need to secure your future and your children's. You can love your husband all you like but he is not there. Addicts are a shell and they cannot be reasoned with. Leave him to his own devices for now.

Please don't listen to any more of what your husband says because it will not be the truth or the whole truth and you can't move forward without knowing your exact position.

Much love to you and your children along with a fervent wish that you get real life support from your own family now. Let them help you, please.

He's accepted it's an addiction and he would have continued to gamble had I not found out. He's told his family. He's getting support via step change and gam care. He's been blocked from our joint account and I'm getting legal advice on the mortgage/home ownership. He accepts he's swapped one addiction (alcohol) for another with the gambling and is likely to do the same unless he gets into a programme. It's a step in the right direction. People can change and I have to have faith in that.

But I'm still in shock. Our boys are 2yo and 4yo. In just over 18m both will be at school and the financial burden will be lessened. We pay £1700 a month in nursery fees and that's only for the 3 days a week I work. I can't afford that and the mortgage alone regardless of what benefits I might be entitled to if we split. We have no family help from relatives to look after the boys as neither live close enough or are fit/healthy enough to manage two young children. Added to that is the fact that DH is what some term as a "hands on dad", or what I term a "dad". I genuinely don't think I could manage solo whilst they're still so little. My youngest is possibly autistic and very challenging. They're both up multiple times a night and I've only just managed to stop breastfeeding the youngest and that was a battle. As a result DH does the nights with the youngest and I do the eldest. The eldest often wakes once but I hear DH going into the youngest 2 or 3 times and he'll cuddle him back to sleep. The few occasions DH hasn't been there to share the load I've been absolutely wrecked with trying to do it all whilst holding down a job and surviving on 4h broken sleep. I'm not saying this to make him out to be a saint, he's just parenting, but it's parenting support that I rely on.

I really think I've got to split our finances and then bide my time until I get the boys in school in 18m time, the financial burden is less, they're hopefully less intense to parent and in that time I can build up a getaway fund if it comes to that/if he's onto the next addiction. I hope to hell he won't be but I will be acting under the presumption that he will be and we will have to leave.

Both of his parents have offered me financial support but they're by no means rich and it's more a gesture than anything that would actually be of assistance. It means the world though, of course. They're there for their son emotionally but certainly not financially and any money they've offered me they've said will go into my sole bank account. I haven't accepted it as I don't feel I can if I have the potential of my grandfather to financially help.

Engage with a debt charity and gambling charity. He needs professional help.

Nevermind my delayed response OP. Wish you all the best.

I don't think he can just hand the house over to you as that's deprivation of assets or whatever and evading his creditors. (Half-remembering stuff I learned 20 years ago). You need proper legal advice.

You need to emotionally, legally and financially separate from him, even if you physically can't move out yet.

If he had an ounce of love or respect for you or his children he would be encouraging you to save yourself basically. He's possibly beyond saving.

What would you advise your child in this situation?

You're right, they are currently both fully and jointly responsible for the mortgage debt. If he were to become bankrupt they would ask if he had "sold" his share of a property for less than its value in the last 5 years given this can be seen as trying to dispose of assets. Which I assume would include giving it to your wife.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

@UnicornAndSparkles

To separate yourself financially you have to divorce. You can still live together, and have a relationship, but you need to be legally protected from any more of (and there will be more) debts.

Who else has he"borrowed" money from?

His family are supporting him, but who is supporting you? As PP have said you need to get some legal advice from a good solicitor. You are understandably reeling from shock at the moment, so I would take a family member or a good friend, who can take all the advice in and help you act on it.

@SecondHandFurniture Of course - 5 year prohibition on "gratuitous alienations" - it's all coming back to me now.

@UnicornAndSparkles
Do check benefits entitlement before dismissing. You might be surprised and it only takes a few minutes.

It sounds like he's telling you what you want to hear but obviously knowing he's missing bits out - though not doing a great job because the lies are tumbling out thick and fast.
You need legal advice really - in order to find a way of protecting yourself. Not necessarily to look at separation if you want to try to support him, but to protect yourself and your children any way you can.

Very kind of you to give him another chance, but someone who tells this many lies on a regular basis will likely never change. He is a pathological liar and his lies won't stop with his addictions (which will also probably not stop).
I don't believe he's told you the truth about his job either. You said he'd been working unpaid for the past 6 months, who in their right mind would be doing this without A) leaving and B) looking for another job?
And if this company really did that (highly unlikely) how do you think it would have kept going for 6 months with no employees left to do the work? (Because other than your DH, who would have stayed??)
You are mad to have been paying nursery fees and just "accepting" that he works for free this whole time!

OP, may I suggest that if he was at all decent and not just thinking of how to cover his lies and save himself, he would suggest you divorce him to protect yourself and the children. Think of it like a simple legal process to help this situation out. A kind of insurance so that at least one of you can remain solvent as you work through the ramifications of his addiction. Otherwise, if you stay legally married, you could be held jointly responsible for that massive debt. You can still love him for now and live in the same house but think again about taking steps to become legally and therefore financially separate from him.
Please get legal advice on that so that you can consider your options properly.

Also, nothing would have to change immediately with regard to caring for the children. He still remains their parent, doing his share of the work load at night as he does now.

Please also think about using your husband for child care while you are at work to save on nursery fees. Then you might be able to continue to pay the mortgage for now until you can sell and downsize.
If he isn’t being paid then he must either find immediate work elsewhere or enable you to save on nursery fees. In this terrible situation, he can’t keep going to work whilst not being paid. Pretending everything is ok. What is he even thinking to carry on relying on your dwindling savings.
Or maybe you could increase your hours while he is the SAHP, if he can’t find paid work. Drastic but practical changes like this might be helpful.

You have said that you can’t afford to leave.
Please prepare yourself for the realisation that actually, you may not be able to afford to stay. Hard to face for now I know.

You are in shock with this nightmare still catching up with you. I really feel for you. You can only take in a little bit of the real truth at a time, otherwise you would go under with the weight of it all. You have done very well to express and assert yourself so far. You are definitely on the right track.

Please don’t accept financial help from your grandfather until you are divorced, when it could help make a real difference.

Good luck OP.

People can change and I have to have faith in that.

No you don’t. It would be much, much safer and more sensible to assume he will always be an addict and protect yourself accordingly. Then if he does manage to kick it all well and good.

Putting faith in something that may not happen is not wise and could very well break you as it does many people involved with addicts, as well as ruining you financially.

Addicts have to treat themselves as addicts for the rest of their lives and so should you.

Regarding this “legal action” against his company. Have you actually seen evidence of it? Has he got a lawyer, is he gathering evidence to prove work done?

That would imply the firm is still a functioning entity. Is the company being restructured, sold or liquidated?

If they’re actually going bust the claim would be to the insolvency partner. But the creditors would be paid first so it depends what funds are left. In that case he could apply to a government service to claim some of the money.

If he cannot help himself then the best thing to do is protect yourself by financially separating.

My DH and I have very different attitudes to money and financial management. We have a joint account for bills but otherwise operate separately.

If he was actually in debt I would separate things further (he's not but a total ostrich, so someone's got to be the grown-up).

One of your young kids' parents has got to be hard headed here. Unfortunately that's you.

You need support for yourself. Have you spoken to your granddad?

My dad would absolutely put money aside for his DGC in such a situation. He'd give sensible advice too.

Your grandfather's money will just sink in the debts OP. Why would you want to use it for that, instead of spending on things you and the children would need?
Best thing imo is that you move out with the kids, use grandpa's money and whatever savings you have, you may also be entitled to benefits. If you still want to give your 'D'H a chance, then tell him he needs to sort his mess out first (on his own, not dragging you and your family down), then maybe you'll reconsider.
Don't jump in his sinking ship!

Firstly op I am so sorry your world had been rocked.
Secondly please take advice feom professionals re the debt especially bankruptcy. There are some industries which wouldn't accept bankruptcy and thus would potentially cut your husbands earning potential.
Thirdly I think you would both benefit from some counselling.
Fourthly, you mention your child might have asd, neurodiversity can run in families whilst being neurodiverse is not an excuse (adhd here and never had a gambling or alcohol problem) it could explain why he is more prone to be addicted to things. Would he consider getting tested?
Addicts are liars and I would encourage you to remember that no matter how brilliant he is at family life.
Take care of yourself.

A bit more clear headed today, despite worrying myself awake half the night. I've got a plan and have made an enquiry to see a local family lawyer. I need to find out what liability I have in regards to his debt due to the fact that we're married. Im pretty certain that if he defaults on the payments the lenders can come after the house and any money I have. The house as it's in his name too, and my money on account of us being married. Obviously I can't risk this happening. He can hand ownership of the house over to me but we remain as we are, but if he goes bankrupt within 5 years this is revisited and effectively null and void, so again, the lendors can come after the house.

I need to know if any of this changes if he hands the house over to me and we divorce, on paper only, and to enable a proper financial split, now. So many considerations and I need proper advice. And by divorcing I would be relying on him to pay his share of everything going forward, as he had been until he stopped being paid (and yes, I have evidence of that, and yes we have instructed lawyers and there is a payment plan in place for them to pay him, but the fact is we can't rely on it as they're effectively a start up and don't have the money until investors come through. He should never have gotten involved but he's an idiot.)

I can't afford to go it alone, nor do I want to. I want to stay with him for now and bide my time until I can afford to leave. I've checked benefits and I'm not eligible for anything like what I'd need, due to the equity in the house which is half mine, and I'm not about to sell it and force my kids to leave their home if there is another way. But I can't risk the house or any money I can manage to save or anything I might inherent going towards his debt.

So I'm getting legal advice.

Thank you to everyone who has been so supportive in this. It's really helped having a discussion board. Things I hadn't even considered are now firmly in my head.

I personally feel you're being incredibly naive, a man who ran up £110k of secret debt and lied and lied is not going to change overnight. You only know because you caught him out.
Do you think every woman who walks away can afford it? no, they make do to safeguard their kids.
Yours are young enough to adapt, take them away from their home nonsense, DC that young accept change.
You've accepted this from him, he won't stop.

This!

So glad you are getting organised for legal advice OP. Well done.

OP you have moved VERY quickly to remedy the situation as you have come to understand it . Keep going.

I think divorcing your dh makes the most sense. However: I am concerned that if you convert him to the SAHP so you can decrease nursery fees and increase paid work that he could become the custodial parent (or whatever the primary parent is called) and further trap you.

Take all the advice you can. Put your head down and plow forward. You have to deal with his destructive reality as best you can. He hid it well but it was always there and therefore always bound to come out.

Thank you. I'm trying to move quickly whilst I'm still in shock and can put the emotion to one side and be pragmatic.

He won't be the stay at home parent/primary parent as finally he's got a job offer this afternoon (I've seen this in black and white and have telephoned the company to confirm the details and checked on companies house that they are a viable company). Thank goodness. It doesn't solve the problems at all but it means some money will be coming in relatively soon.

In the meantime, legal advice on financial separation from now on.

In your shoes access to finacial information would be non negotiable. Id be prepared to stake my marriage on it.Without all this info you can't begin to work out a plan. You gave him ample opportunity to sort this himself and he didnt. Hes still in denial.
I'd guess he has an 'addictive personality'. He's no longer alcohol dependant but he still needs his buzz. That won't ever change. He needs another outlet.
Sadly I don't hold out much chance of your marriage surviving. Do not use your grandfather's money for you both. Save that emergency fall back for when you need to sell up. This will be for you and your children alone. Sorry 😞