DH's secrets and lies

[UnicornAndSparkles]

I'll preface this with the fact that DH is generally a wonderful husband and father. He in incredibly loving and patient and generous and will always go out of his way to be a real 50/50 partner, be that with early starts, sharing the parental load as best we can (he'll always get up early with the kids for instance, and does most of the nursery drop offs and pick ups despite working full time). We've been married for almost 15 years and he is my absolute rock.

But. He has lied to me, on multiple occasions, about finances. At first it was to cover up a drinking problem, which I obviously knew he had, but he wasn't ready to admit to. With a lot of support from myself and others he has overcome and is now 4yrs sober. Something I am hugely proud of him for. But that drinking problem got him into significant debt which he didn't reveal to me. When he got sober he came clean and told me of the loan and credit card debt, totalling around 10k, all repayable within 2y he said. 2y came and went and I presumed it was paid. It's now 2y on and I find out it's not repaid and there's still around 10k to repay so there must have been significantly more at the outset. His company has recently gone bust and he hasn't been paid a salary for around 6m. He initially kept this from me for 2 months, contributing to the family finances as he usually would but only now I find out it was through a credit card. Obviously this was unsustainable and we he revealed the issue we started paying all the bills from our savings, which are almost depleted. I earn money too but not as much as he does, and my salary isn't enough to cover the mortgage and childcare costs. He put off finding a new job as he was sure the money would come in. It didn't and he has admitted he should have got a new job months ago rather than only starting to look now, when we have little savings left to fall back on. He's also revealed that he's been living in his overdraft for 3y. Again, something he kept from me.

He was on a 90k salary, which to me is a huge amount, but is so bad with money that he couldn't budget his spendings. He lives a champagne lifestyle, which I presumed was because he could, but it's become apparent that he couldn't afford half of it. I, on the other hand, would rather save than spend. It gives me far more of a thrill to see savings mounting up and shop in the likes of new look than it does to buy fancy things and not have any savings. Of course I enjoyed the holidays and all the rest of the things DH was spending money on, but only because I thought he could afford it and it was never overly lavish. My salary is far below his and I obviously had a very naive view of what 90k can afford, as it's clearly not the lifestyle we've enjoyed. He's always been this way, his family joke he was always awful with money. But the issue is the lies he's told me, the fact that he's kept the loan amount and credit card bills and overdraft secret from me, whilst the debt mounts up and up. We've always said we share finances and so it came as a shock that he wasn't being open and honest with me. He says he was embarrassed about the whole thing but now I don't feel I can trust him with money and am questionning whether he really does earn £90k or that's an exaggeration, whether the total debt is bigger than the 20k he's admitted to (he initially said it was 8-10k), whether there are more credit cards with payments due. It really worries me as we share a mortgage and have two children.

The crux is I asked him to prove he was being honest with me about the level of debt he now admits to. I've asked to see bank statements showing the figures and the repayment plan. But he won't show me. AIBU? We are very close to having to ask my grandfather to help us with money when our savings run out as until he starts getting paid again my salary cannot cover all of the outgoings (grandfather is in a position to help, financially, and has offered to do so as he is aware that we are living off our savings). Or we default on the mortgage. I cannot believe we're in this situation. I feel cross that he hasn't been honest with me and cross that he didn't up sticks and get a paying job sooner when he realised the company was going bust, but I can't turn back the clock and he recognises he's been a fool. But am I being unreasonable to not be able to trust him with the finances and to want to see the debt in black and white? Or is he unreasonable not to show me the level of debt he (and realistically "we" as we are a partnership) owe?

I think it would be a good idea separating from him financially if nothing else. Seek legal advice about how to protect your own financial interests.
With young children, pensions and retirement may seem irrelevant, especially with £100k+ debt presenting z far more pressing issue, but the full issue goes way beyond what is in your face. Paying off the debt over 10 years will significantly impact of your financial situation even though it isn't your debt.
I suggest you discuss this with your Grandad, who is obviously good with money. Perhaps he will gift you money to see a solicitor so you can take steps to protect you and your children financially. You can do this independently of whether or not you choose to stay in a relationship with him.

I absolutely wouldn’t borrow money from your grandfather or anyone else in this situation.

I don’t think I could live with this level of betrayal and lies. Your DH is completely untrustworthy. You can’t believe a word he says.

@UnicornAndSparkles

OP What a huge shock finding out the real extent of your husband's debt. Well done you for acting so swiftly now you know the situation but, as other posters have said, you (and him) need to get the professional help which has been mentioned here. He also needs to look at the possibility of doing additional work outside his new job to help keep you all afloat.

Regarding the company which owes him money, also speak to the debt management companies/charities about what his options are about getting paid and to check what's happening about his occupational pension.

Additionally I'd talk confidentiality to your grandad a heads up about this situation and warn him not to give your husband any money, because he'd be unlikely to get it back. Perhaps he could help you with some of the cost of getting legal advice about the money his employer owes. 🌹

Definitely talk to Stepchange or Christians Against Poverty. They will talk through what debt solutions are possible and most relevant for your situation. They can also help your DH apply for breathing space to give you some protection while you get everything sorted out.
Your DH can give permission for you to speak to them on his behalf if he'd prefer that.

IF you are going to continue this relationship you need to make it clear to him that you are both paid into a joint account and then he has his pocket money that he can spent sent to his own account separately. It’s clear he can’t be trusted financially so treat him as so. You need to be protecting yourself. No more living a champagne life style, tell him to grow the fuck up, pay back what he owes and never do it again or you’re gone.

This…

I agree with others: I don't think you know the half of this. I am not sure that he is salvageable and he will bring you down with him.

I am sorry.

Wonderful husbands and fathers don't do this. Do not take money from your grandfather, you need to resolve this mess without dragging someone else's money into it - have you thought about how you will pay him back if you couldn't manage when DH was earning £90k and now he's unemployed?

This!

And it's mind blowing that you even think he's a nice person. A nice person who puts his wife and kids in debt, their home under jeopardy, wants to borrow from your grandfather? Wake up op.

And you are even asking whether he should disclose everything to you. You are more than naive. Utterly foolish for going along with this. Him getting sober isn't something glorious that you think he's doing something amazing that makes his lies acceptable. Most people would have walked away from an alcoholic in the first place! Him doing his fair share with childcare is not something glorious too! I would really cut my losses and leave, before you and your dc lose your home. He's probably far deeper in debt and lies than you think!

As he’s lied to you over and over again
sign up to clear score in his name using a email address that only you have access to

you will be able to check his credit file for yourself
he won’t know you have done this either
you just need his name age address
you might need to confirm one or two bank account / credit that he’s had but you should definitely do it

I imagine that people here are not just saying these things lightly. Unfortunately, men like OP's DH are not unusual in society. Op needs to be ready to hear the truth. All others can do is warn.

Op I think you are very strong reading your update x
I keep thinking though this is all well and good whilst he's not earning and scared. The test will be whether he starts spending and gambling again when he starts being payed again and he feels like there's a safety net.
100k was a good whack of your mortgage that could have been paid off.

He needs professional help with gambling and addiction and if he wants to save his marriage he will make a gp appointment this week x

So alcoholic, gambling addiction and you must know that other addictions are now even more tempting to him. Think of your life, your kids and if this is what you really want for them. He's not a good dad, good dads do not do this. Why do you need to take control of his finances? Are you his mum ? He will give you control for a while, till he feels he's done his time and go back to it. And you think blocking gambling sites will stop him without any professional help and hard work? I think you really need to wake up here. He got into 110k debt, all the while coming home and looking at you in the face and lying to you. Don't take money from your GF, you both know he's not getting it back.

Anyone can make mistakes and totally screw up their finances (I know because I've done it) but the fact that he won't show you his bank statements and accounts is really worrying. There's a good possibility he's trying to minimise the problem and by showing you the paperwork, you're going to get the full picture.

The secrecy is a dealbreaker really, especially as your finances are linked. Have you done a credit check on yourself recently? You can do it easily online (and for free). Ultimately you're meant to be a team and if he's hiding a huge part of his life, that's a big problem. I really think you need to see everything.

Apologies didn't RTFT and have asked mumsnet to remove my comment

To have done all this and still refuse to be completely transparent with showing you his statements and proving full access to his accounts is frankly, insulting and contemptible. Fuck him.

This is what I was coming to say.

He's an addict and I think he needs proper support because an addiction doesn't just go away because you're found out. He needs support to quit in the same way that an alcoholic does. He's swapped one addiction for another.

I don't gamble myself but I know a bit about the gambling industry. You can register with a company called GAMSTOP who will block your DH from being able to register with any casino or gambling site licensed in the UK.

But do you see that caveat? They can only block access for properly licensed casinos/betting sites.

There are quite literally THOUSANDS of casinos and betting sites available online that aren't licensed in the UK. It's not recommended to use them because the regulators aren't so robust but it's not illegal for UK residents to bet at them. They're all on Google etc. Right there. And the thing is, self-exclusion at GAMSTOP won't mean anything because those casinos aren't part of the scheme.

If he is tempted to bet, being self-excluded from UK sites is a very good start and is still worth doing - but he'll still be able to find plenty of casinos to bet at online.

You want to work on this together and give him another chance, so you need to plan for the worst. As an addict, there will be times when he's tempted to relapse. It's the nature of addiction. And if there are sites available, he will still have opportunities.

So my question is - will he have any way of accessing money that he can gamble with without you knowing?

How will you know he's not secretly gambling on unlicensed sites?

How is he going to cope being treated like a child and only given access to money for essentials?

Would he have access to a credit card that he can spend on?

Has he shown you all his statements and bank statements etc yet? Because Experian is only one credit agency and doesn't necessarily have information about everything. (I check my credit file with two different sites and there's info on another one that Experian doesn't show....)

Will he permit you to check his phone/laptop/tablet periodically and without warning so you can check he's not been visiting gambling sites?

I know an acquaintance whose husband was addicted to sex sites and apparently wanted to give up but "couldn't" - so they agreed to some kind of keystroke monitor thing that alerted her if he typed certain words. Don't know her well or exactly how it works, but maybe this is something to consider.

I guess really what I'm saying is that to be absolutely certain he doesn't go back to his old habits, you're going to have to assume there's no trust at all and to check up on everything. No matter what he says now, and no matter how good his intentions are, there's a huge risk that he'll slide back - and you can't afford for him to take you and your DC with him.

It's a big thing to commit to, and quite a change in the power dynamics of your relationship. It's also quite emasculating for him to be treated this way (but it's his own fault) - can he cope with such invasive scrutiny?

I'm sorry love, I don't mean to be the voice of doom and gloom, and neither am I trying to influence your decision to stay or leave. But to be absolutely certain he doesn't fuck your finances more than he already has, these are the kinds of things you need to consider.

It's really harsh and brutal to realise that the person you love doesn't exist.

The guy you thought he was, it was all an act. He's just a good actor, that's all. And he was prepared to lie to your face, again and again, to feed his addiction - regardless of the impact on you.

He does not give a shit about you or your family, he's an addict who only cares about himself.

Don't be fooled into thinking you can fix this, you absolutely can't.

If you walk away now, maybe your granddad can help you get free of him.

Don't throw your own life away in the pointless pursuit of trying to fix someone else who has clearly demonstrated their total lack of regard for you. Words mean nothing. Look at what he's done.

He is absolute trash. Get rid.

Your H needs to get to the root of his issues. He needs to understand why he lacks the ability to live without a crutch, and why his self esteem is so low he will choose dishonesty rather than admit to you his failings. You say he's a good man who loves you all. I believe you. But that will not give you and your children security and happiness, because the broken part will keep coming to the surface and ruining everything until he addresses it. Unless he does some work on himself, I predict a future where you are constantly digging out of one mess or another, an endless cycle of him changing then slipping, and each time him feeling worse about himself and lying to you (and himself) while you become hypervigilent waiting for the next time it falls apart.

Ah, I should have read the whole thread before replying. Doh!

But I agree with PP that you should talk to a debt advise charity like CAP or one of the others. With 110k debt and no income, I'm assuming he must be borrowing from one lender in order to pay another? I imagine the debt will be on high rates of interest too?

A debt charity can give you all the information and it might be that an IVA is the best option. I have a friend who did something similar and ended up declaring bankruptcy. She got into a payment plan but after 5 years the bankruptcy was cleared from her record. Most importantly she tackled the root cause of it all and today is in a really solid financial position. With help, it's possible to dig your way out of this but your (D)H will absolutely need treatment for his addiction otherwise you'll work your socks off to fix it and he'll either do it again or find another thing to channel addiction into.

It's a huge shock for you! I hope you've got some support from outside the marriage too, someone you can talk to?

This will alll be your fault
when he can’t gamble / get his fix
he will resent and blame you for controlling him

honestly I would leave or kick him out

the fact that when he lost his job but still carried on pretending he was working and spending money shows he wants to be the “Big Man”

he will absolutely resent you for stopping him doing what he wants

I’d hold off any loans from your family until you get to the bottom of what he is hiding
if he won’t show you , my guess it’s much bigger hole than you think ,
get all paperwork together, check mortgage payments etc everything before you put your family’s money into what could be a sinking ship
you May need the loan yourself later
wait until you have all the facts
dont listen to his word salad you already know he’s a lair they don’t change .

I’ve just read through the updates and I think I’m most shocked that you’re still saying he’s a decent guy! Decent guys don’t do this to their wife and kids.

As soon as I read the first post I thought it’s going to be so much more than that…. And then it’s over £100k?! And he was pushing for you to get into more debt with an even bigger house? That’s reckless stupidity and would have took your entire family down on his ego. Personally I couldn’t move past that many years of lies, I mean he’s clearly so good at hiding things from you that you discovered all this years after the fact. Could you honestly ever trust him again? It’s one thing babysitting him with pocket money for the rest of your life but I’d be driving myself mad everytime a man like that left the house.

OP you really are in a make or break position with your marriage
He needs to do as you ask or how do you have a future ? He needs to show it all to you and id go as far as to say let you take total control
over finances as you are the only sensible one here.
You can’t trust him and he needs to know without trust you have no marriage . So he shapes up or ships out.

Give him the ultimatum . How he responds will tell you everything