To feel sad when I compare my kids with other children...

[aseekingseeker]

This is, I appreciate, a very sensitive subject. I love my children, more than anything, but I'm finding it increasingly sad and frustrating that they don't seem to want to do as well as they could do, or go the extra mile.

I also realise that this is most definitely a First World Problem but we have very close friends, including children at similar ages and two of their 3 kids go to the same school as my children (aged 15 and 11). I know you can't know for sure, but we have shared lots of info so I know that our children are of a similar intelligence but theirs just seem to want to go the extra mile and excel. Their kids work so, so hard, and are always perfectly behaved and turned out. I know comparing like this never does any good but I just can't help it.

My two kids attend an academic school and are doing very well, but never quite excelling. My youngest, in particular is very, very bright and would easily score highly without any revision. We do encourage working hard and revising but they have so far not been to pick up the prizes at the end of the year, I think, because both kids have a 'bare minimum' stance when it comes to homework (to be fair, I don't think they care about prizes, it's me, but I just don't get why they wouldn't care - that's what gets me). They both have very high predictions but don't work enough or in the right way to hit these targets. I've always been trying to get involved but they're very much 'we want to do it our way'.

Neither of my two want to go to extracurriculars such as creative writing, debating, politics etc etc. They dabble in sport.

The other family (and in fact we know two) basically have 3 kids who ALWAYS go the extra mile, who are ALWAYS polite (I don't think in the ten years we've known them, these kids have ever put their foot wrong or lost their temper), who ALWAYS look smartly turned out, not a shirt ever needed to be tucked in (unlike my two!).

I know these kids well and they are clearly bright but, honestly, I don't think smarter than our kids (or others in their respective year groups) but they work so, so hard and achieve accordingly - all three of them! Basically across the board. If their mum asks them to go to a club or do something, they do it. They don't watch telly and certainly don't do gaming/phone in the week. I don't think they have time tbh as they work so hard.

Don't get me wrong, my children are generally polite (to others at least) and we have lots of fun, but I continually get push back, especially from the eldest who is very much turning into a 'teenager'.

I just wish I could bottle what the other family are doing. I do feel I have 'failed' in some respects and although I love the other families, I sometimes wish had friends who were less 'perfect'. I know that's probably completely U-N-R-E-A-S-O-N-A-B-L-E.

For context, the other family have a couple of teacher grandparents (on either side), including a secondary teacher in STEM, who are very involved with their grandkids and do most of the after-school care as both parents are working. So I'm sure there is something in that which helps but it can't be everything. And it's not a 'cultural' thing either; nor is it a family that use threats etc, they're super calm.

What am I doing wrong?

How do I make my children WANT to work hard, look smart etc (both DH and I dress smartly and care how we are turned out, and we both work hard - including when we were at school - although I work p/t during school hours).

@Rangelife my job as a kid was to honour my parents & respect the family name. Whilst we are not extensions of our parents most don’t have kids that veer vastly away from familial norms.

It’s a human wish for our kids to do better than we did & lead happy successful lives & have more opportunities than we did?

There is only one thing I want for my kid and that is for him to be happy.

For example. Better to be a happy shop worker than a depressed unfulfilled city type.

One of my teachers daughters jumped off a cliff a few days before she was due to go to Cambridge uni. She excelled in everything she did. Brilliant academic, talented musician and sportswoman. It wasn't enough. She wasn't happy

@Naptrappedmummy not sneering at the kids or wishing them to be unhappy at all. It’s the parents who are the issue here, not the kids. They may well be super dedicated to their school work, but for teenager's to not use phones, watch tv or play video games doesn’t sound particularly healthy, what do they do to wind down? How do they socialise with their peers?How many adults spend all Their time just working.
And it’s a massive assumption to say kids that do gaming etc have no routines, definitely not the case in our household. Your comment is very judgmental.

If ever a thread was going to become a "comparison is the thief of joy" drinking thread, I'd have thought fuck it and drowned my weetabix in gin for this one.

There is always someone better off, always someone worse. It's that simple in my humble opinion, try to not compare with others, you're not going to feel good no matter who you compare your kids to so make conscious decisions to deflect those thoughts when you have them.

I would stop any referencing to them being bright or clever. Children who are will know they are but can sometimes feel the weight of expectation that they should achieve something more.
Comment positively on any effort and work they do put in. Not the result or their intelligence.

There’s a lot to unpick here but overall you’re judging your kids by the wrong metrics. They are doing well and presumably happy. That’s all you need. If it helps, I was a lazy scruffy teenager doing bare minimum homework and constantly reprimanded at school for wearing punk band logo hoodies over my uniform. I would never have joined an academic club although I dabbled in sport and music. I got 5 As in my A levels, a vet degree, and a PhD from a top university. I was a miserable teenager because of being nagged/judged. Don’t be ‘that’ parent, especially on their appearance for goodness sake. I’m still poorly turned out in my 40s and all the happier for it!

@aseekingseeker name changed

My kids are very sociable and happy. We watch TV together every night (well teen less so), and they are chatty and youngest, in particular, likes to state their views and has a great sense of humour.

Didn't meant for it to sound so sad, because it isn't, but it was the thing about 'how do you encourage people wanting to do their best' (and agree, perfectionism is not healthy)

The first sentence (happy and sociable)is all you need here.

Children who are ultra-competitive and high-achievers generally are like that for bad reasons -

• either it is because they individually lack parental attention and are striving to get it (this can happen for all kinds of reasons - 2 kids, older one from moment of birth of youngest feels they have lost attention and need to get it; too many children for the parents to give each enough attention; inattentive parents) but the core of it is trying to get attention *because in some way (usually parents expecting and demanding acheivement) they associate achievement with love. *because they have very low self esteem and feel 'achieving' gets them loved and people will like them - if they are the captain of the football team, top in the class and so on (this overlaps with the previous too).

If you have children who are happy and sociable, you don't need to worry I think.

If you want to promote this behaviour, all you need to do is withold attention from them, excessively praise their friends who are achieving and give them love and attention when they are achieving. You might end up with slightly emotionally fucked up children though!

@FarmGirl78 & others, re: kids doing ‘extra’. In primary in Maths homework we had s section called ‘clever cats’ essentially an extension activity. Not beyond academic reach of most but most 7/8 year olds are not going to be thrilled by the prospect of 20 mins extra sums.

Those who did the extension were seen generally as smarter & more industrious. This was rewarded in school, so Mums pushed more. Then the ‘projects’ those who ‘won’ essentially had been done by parents pretty much. And so on…the seeds are sown.

My child is like this. Very polite, enthusiastic, kind, has hobbies and activities. But will not push at all academically. Is bright but performs no better than average. Will do the bare minimum. Gives up very quickly if something to do with school work requires even an iota of thought.
I’ve decided just to focus on all the positives she does have as there are many but I understand your frustration.

Are you more intelligent, fit and make more money than every adult you socialise with? Kids don't need to be perfect they just need to be happy and as long as they are prepared to be functional adults, I wouldn't be putting that kind of pressure on them.

@User14March but it wasn't your responsibility to live up to familial norms and respect your family name. You, as an individual might have naturally done that and be happy with that and it's good that worked out for you. But you didn't have to and if you hadn't wanted to (because you found those norms uncomfortable or the family norms didn't fit your sense of who you are) then you are an autonomous being who is allowed to live your life on you terms and you would be well within your rights to reject it and live a different way.

Just because your parents had you, doesn't mean you automatically have the 'job' of honouring your parents and the family name and what they think is the 'right' way to live a good life. Parents might aspire for their DC to have a 'better' life but it's their version of better, it's their version of happy, their version of successful. Sometimes you need to think, as a parent, are these aspirations and goals the right thing for my individual child or are they right for me? Sometimes the DC wants to walk a different path to yours and there's nothing more or less valid about their choices than the parents choices. The OP's kids don't want to go the 'extra mile' and that is fine. It's their choice to make, not OP's. If parents project disappointment or resent that, it's damaging to children.

Hey OP, you are not doing anything wrong. You say your kids are doing well.

I was one of those kids at school who also went the extra mile. Did extra work to get a A+ instead of an A. That's because I was a perfectionist and wouldn't settle for anything less. I wish now that I'd been one of those kids who just did enough work, lowered my expectations, relaxed a little, enjoyed life a bit more, even have moments of doing nothing. I personally don't like this society where you always have to be seen achieving, winning, always busy.

OP, please try not to be sad. I’ve always been more like your children while DH has always been driven, ambitious and going the extra mile. When one of our DCs looks like being like me, I feel like you, but DH says he wishes he’d taken that path, but instead has had a lifetime of never being satisfied or fulfilled professionally because he always feels like he should be doing more. Until very recently he’d do far more than his paid hours to “go the extra”, and he realised it just left him burnt out for no real reward.

While I occasionally feel regret that I’ve never pushed myself as hard as I potentially could, I’m so much less stressed, and have a job and a work-life balance that means I can really enjoy stuff day to day.

We all want to see our DCs being the best they can be, but sometimes it might be better longterm to just let them potter and be “fine”.

My friend has a DD who falls into the category you're talking about, ie she always used to go the extra mile, lots of extracurricular activities, bright, polite.

Going into A levels, I'm not sure what it is she developed, but she suddenly just couldn't do it, became very tired, couldn't concentrate - had to be assessed at different hospital with no diagnosis. Not much can be done apparently, other than she's advised to only spend eight hours a day living her life, that's hygiene, mobile phone, tv, working, reading, socialising - she's meant to sit doing literally nothing or sleeping for the rest of the time.

My friend is lovely but pushed and pushed her DD to excel, always had to have lots of extra curricular going on, expected to help with household chores at a young age (more than usual) and to pop around to check if Granny needed any help 2-3 x weekly, at the time I said it was all too much and I half suspect her DD had some sort of breakdown due to this.

Her DD did take her A levels, but didn't get the A/A*s forecast. In all fairness she's doing an extended uni course (six years), but my DD who is younger has finished her degree, managed to work while doing so and now has a full-time job.

I think you're DC will get there in the end in their own way. One thing to be really grateful is that they've got a reasonable level of good health and are happy. Also, not sure what age your DC are, but mine was fairly bright, did work hard in her own way but only really got focused prior to doing her GCSEs and I think this is typical of a lot of children.

@tpbpsbhwmpIf you want to promote this behaviour, all you need to do is withold attention from them, excessively praise their friends who are achieving and give them love and attention when they are achieving. You might end up with slightly emotionally fucked up children though!

You just PERFECTLY summed up my entire life!! It was the excessively praising my achieving friends bit that did the most damage. My self esteem has been crushed so very many times. Even now "I hear your friend XXXXX has gone back to Uni to do another degree. Couldn't you do that?".

It has utterly destroyed me.

You need to get a grip! This attitude is so damaging, and I'm sure your children can pick up on these feelings of disappointment. They sound like good kids. Stop projecting your issues onto them!

Also – being a high achiever as a child does not always translate into a successful or happy adulthood.

This is about you, not them.

Your kids are doing just fine OP. I was a striver - but I had something to strive to get away from ! My kids are like your kids . I’m not worried. They have personality and they will get there in the end when they discover their passion.

Having the skill to judge the amount of effort required to achieve an acceptable result, and the inner peace to be satisfied by being just good enough, are exceptionally important life skills and bode fantastically well for happiness as an adult. You have done a great job OP raising your kids to be confident and content in themselves as they are. They are likely to be longer term more successful as they will reserve their energy for whatever eventually comes along that excites or inspires them, rather than burning out on approval seeking along the way.

@Rangelife I do think authoritative parenting kept me safe, NB: not authoritarian. I veered away from it for own kids & profoundly regret. All those who laid down the rules, the expectations, very clearly broadly have happy healthy children.

I don’t fundamentally disagree. We are shaped by own own experiences & this should be a real ‘watch out’.

Hard work is over-rated, at least in general terms, and the school curriculum at that stage is super-dull. They’ll eventually find what interests them. For what it’s worth, I’d rather have children like yours than identikit ‘good’ children (who are the types my mother, a teacher, indicated she would have liked). And of comparisons engendered is hatred.

While I agree with your first point I find your comment on extra curricular stuff sad. It's not just about what's useful for work - things like music can enrich your life. Thats why I hoped DD would want to do sport and creative hobbies. She did, and has carried on with her music/drama as a hobby in adulthood. She gets satisfaction from it, and friends.

@Pookerrod

You have raised your kids differently since they were born. That’s why they’re not the same. The values that your friend and her extended family have instilled in those children since they could walk and talk are different. Not better or worse just different

Thats an important point. A significant part of our kids abilities and personality comes directly from us. Though studies show that parenting “style” (obviously discounting extremes of abuse) is thought to have very little impact.

Beyond our DNA, the only other thing that really matters is the area we buy our home, access to a decent diet and books, and the school they go to, as that will determine their peer group.

Beautifully expressed. Agree wholeheartedly.

Yes - sounds like sour grapes so much of the time, if I was to compare my dcs to others I'd drive myself mad, and sad about my dc with ASD who has so many challenges. The absolute key thing is to see your dcs as individuals and to support them in developing life skills and maturity so they can make good decisions, and to making sure they know that home will always be somewhere they're appreciated for themselves.

Presumably gaming in itself is not innately bad, but so many children live in awful circumstances, are ill, are young carers, have parents that are disinterested for whatever reason, or - increasingly - live in dire poverty.

I asked one of my kids why they felt they had to work so hard at school and I was prouder of her answer than I would be of any academic results - she said it was partly that she appreciates that she has interested parents, a warm house, good food and attend a good school and wants to demonstrate that appreciation.

She also said she wasn't doing it to keep us (her parents) happy but that she's competitive and enjoys the praise - a pretty honest answer, leading to a chat about why praise is so important, and there's lots of ways to be happy/successful. But basically, she's motivated not through us telling her to work hard but partly because she likes the feeling of doing well academically, and partly because she's aware of what's going on in the wider world because we watch the news together and she knows she's lucky.

How old are your DCs @aseekingseeker ?