To think if my colleague does this with her child then I should be able to as well… and it is unfair unlike what HR are saying?

[Hawua]

Colleague came back from maternity last year and used holiday 2 days a week, effectively working a 3 day week. This meant she could put her ds in nursery 3 days a week, saving quite a chunk of childcare cost.

We are exactly the same level and do the same job and joined in the same year, four years ago.

I am being told on my return from mat leave that I can’t use holiday like that and must take it all in one go. This means I will have full childcare costs while my colleague had 8 months worth of 3 day week (we have a lot of holiday allowance).

HR have said that the cost for childcare evens out as I am having six weeks off in one go, so saving a bulk in childcare that way? Am I missing something? they’ve also said my colleague is a single parent and so they made an extra flexible option for her, how is this fair?!

It's possible that they have made a mistake in letting your colleague set a precedent and are now backpedalling madly.

Well their comment might be correct in some cases or it might not be. I don’t think it is the point. Your organisation is entitled to approve or not approve your holiday request and it is not relevant what they agreed with somebody else.

Have you formally requested flexible working. They do have to give business reason why they accommodate but unfortunately this isn’t hard.

it sounds like they want you to take ‘outstanding’ annual leave before you return and therefore think you will save 6 weeks of nursery fees.

I went in for a chat to see where I stood. I didn’t get everything I wanted but I was happy with what I got.

Sometimes it just feels so unfair. Because it is. Irrespective of whether HR has done anything bad/nasty/illegal.

I'm guessing that they agreed to it for her, found it didn't work for the company, so aren't prepared to do it again.

Sometimes companies take a risk on something/someone, and find that it's not something they can continue. And annoying though it might be, that's fair enough.

Am I your colleague op? I've just done this. Your work can make you take it one chunk, it's not setting a precedent if only one other has chosen to do it this way. Doesn't the new childcare kick in for 15 free hours from 9 months Sept 2024 if working? It's not nice for you but I also found my situation was very unusual and I don't think anyone had asked to do it this way previously as most took all in one chunk before or after. I just had to take mine before the new holiday year.

I would agree with this (though I do think it’s unfair). It’s down to business needs. Have they said why they’ve turned the request down?

I don’t think businesses take their employees personal costs in to account do they? Mine certainly wouldn’t.

Maybe the business cannot afford for you to do the same, however it would be nice of them to be upfront about it.

@Hawua

presuming for this illustration you both have the same number of days leave accumulated...

you're both getting paid for days you're not working. It doesn't matter if that's a couple of days each week (her) or in a block (you)

neither of you are paying childcare on the same number of days.

she gets months of part time weeks. You get a much longer maternity leave.

you may want to do what she did, emotionally, but financially it's the same.

maybe your employers found it a PITA they're not obligated to offer the same, unfortunately.

just look forward to your much longer maternity leave.

I absolutely understand that this feels unfair.

but there are various valid reason that might explain this decision.

It’s possible that they realised after your colleague that it simply wasn’t working for them.
It’s possible that the situation (other team members days off etc.) has changed.

different positions, areas of responsibility etc. would also explain this.

last but not least: I suppose it is possible that your workplace decided to make an exception due to her personal circumstances. Being a single mother, complex needs, daily commute, nursery availability etc.

I am not saying that you shouldn’t pursue this and try to find a different solution with your employer. But the argument of “fairness/unfairness” will only take you so far.

When my kids were in nursery you had to pay for the place regardless of whether you took them out for holiday or they were off sick. You only didn’t get charged if the nursery was shut. If that’s still the norm you won’t be better off as you’ll be paying more.

I think they think they’ve made a mistake now and don’t want to set a precedent.

I would rather people returned to work rather than delayed time back with annual leave.

In my company we will try to meet the needs of the person concerned and abide by their needs.

All needs are different. I don't think HR should have spoken about single parent needs being greater than not.

Can you appeal?

I hope you don't show your upset feelings to your colleague.

Is she able to perform her job to everyone's satisfaction, including yours, in three days? I doubt your firm would have been so accommodating had she been useless.

I can understand you think it is unfair but better things for you may be ahead and you may even find something else that suits, and leave this behind.

Good luck.

@Thewateriswide

but to be fair, they're running a business, not a voluntary service.

& other people have personal issues, other than children, that they would like to work flexibly for.

it's not always possible or desirable for a business to allow for everyone's preferences.

Well they obviously have taken the stance that the amount she saved over that time only paying part time nursery fees would be the same amount you’d save by having no nursery fees for 6 weeks. I can sort of see where they’re coming from but that only works in theory and only if you have a childcare setting that you pay on a per day basis.

In most cases you’re paying for your child’s place regardless of which exact days or hours you use. So a part time place that your colleague was able to secure for a long period would probably be much cheaper than just 6 weeks of no fees at all and then full time fees which you’d have.

It would totally depend on what arrangements you both have for childcare and how the fee structure works who would be better off financially. Either way though unfortunately, it doesn’t make much difference from a company perspective… they’re giving you both the same amount of hours leave. How they choose to do it (one way for one and one way for another) is not great but you must have some sort of policy regarding how annual leave is taken?

It's unfair yes. I've been at my current job over a decade and I've seen colleagues allowed to do one thing when later another is told no. I think it is trial and error on the managers part. I bet nobody else will be allowed to do it going forward. If it is really to do with being a single parent you could say you've separated from your partner. If that is their only reason I wonder what they will say then.

Rather than suggesting you are being unreasonable, or not, what I would say that it's probably not possible to directly compare your situation with hers.

Flexible working requests are made in relation to the business circumstances at the time they are being requested. There may be specific reasons why one request was ok a year ago (and ongoing) and why the same request is not ok now. Requests are made and denied/accepted for "business reasons". They have to demonstrate that they have considered your case relevant to the business today and you are within your rights to ask for an explanation why it's not accepted but it would be incorrect to assume that the scenarios can/will be considered equivalently because the business and personnel will have changed in that time.

Your employer absolutely has the right to deny or accept requests based on the business case for or against them.

I think it's very childish to yell "unfair". Life isn't fair or equitable. It's not equitable that your colleague's child lives in a one income household compared to your child's two income household. That's life though.

Ask them to confirm whether they are declining because her arrangement turned out not to meet business needs, or because you are not a single parent.

Then find out whether 1 day a week (rather than 2) would work. Could your DH also go down to 4 days /week so your child still only does 3 days /week in childcare?

@Whataretheodds I'm not sure that would help though. Her arrangement might still meet business needs, but two people with the same arrangement may not, eg if they both wanted to have the same non working days might leave the team short staffed on those days. There could be a number of reasons beyond the two options you're presenting.

Surely

You get 6 weeks off in one go so 30 working days or 1.5 months.

If she uses the same allowance so 30 days but takes 2 days off a week, that will be 15 weeks. That's not even three weeks

You're saying she's taking it for 8 months so about 34 weeks. Two days a week would be 68 days.

So either you're wrong in how wrong it's lasting her or you're using a different number of days

But HR are right in that 30 days of annual leave booked off to cover nursery is 30 days of nursery not paid for whether it's in 5 solid weeks or 15 weeks at two days a time. It's still 30 days you're not paying for nursery

This is one of those situations where you have to remember that HR works to protect the interests of the company, not you. You have the right to make a flexible working request but you might find that your colleague’s arrangement had a negative impact on the activities of the company which would give them a proven business reason to turn you down.

I work in HR. They don’t have to allow this, it would fall under business need discretion. I would imagine that your colleague won’t be allowed to do it forever either- we put in a review every 6/12 months of flexible working arrangements as both personal and business needs change.

PS I should add I don't work in HR but I have had to battle through my own flexible working request and multiple grievances (including forgetting to mention redundancy and a failed TUPE while I was off on maternity leave) with the support of my union so have had more practice than I would like in discussing levels of employer reasonableness

Well yes, there could be other reasons. I'm suggesting OP explores them so she can understand the objection and find a workable solution