To think if my colleague does this with her child then I should be able to as well… and it is unfair unlike what HR are saying?

[Hawua]

Colleague came back from maternity last year and used holiday 2 days a week, effectively working a 3 day week. This meant she could put her ds in nursery 3 days a week, saving quite a chunk of childcare cost.

We are exactly the same level and do the same job and joined in the same year, four years ago.

I am being told on my return from mat leave that I can’t use holiday like that and must take it all in one go. This means I will have full childcare costs while my colleague had 8 months worth of 3 day week (we have a lot of holiday allowance).

HR have said that the cost for childcare evens out as I am having six weeks off in one go, so saving a bulk in childcare that way? Am I missing something? they’ve also said my colleague is a single parent and so they made an extra flexible option for her, how is this fair?!

They agreed this arrangement with your colleague and probably soon realised it was not a good move or a good look (might set a precedent and anger other employees) but they didn't feel they could rescind it because by that time she had sorted child care accordingly.

So, they decided the next person to ask for a similar arrangement (you as it happens) would be refused. All their talk of it amounting to the same etc is irrelevant. HR are just feeding you platitudes because they realise they cocked up. I doubt very much that there is anything you can do about it but I can see why you are fuming.

So, I can understand why on the surface this feels unfair.

Employers can refuse holiday requests if they do not believe it is compatible with the business needs.

I think you need to ask why it would negatively impact business without comparing to your colleague.

Can you put in a flexible working request? Any way to work longer days and do a 4 week day? Any working from home available (appreciate you would still need childcare but makes drop offs and pick ups that little bit easier).

I would be careful what you wish for the company may decide that if it can survive with workers working part time for a chunk of the year , roles be made part time or got rid of.

It’s unfair but they can basically say what they want and call it ‘Business need’.

The fact they’ve accommodated this previous does not mean they have to again, especially if it didn’t suit them.
Your marital status, childcare, nursery costs are not their problem.

Acas and your union will not be able to force them to change their minds.

They’ve probably realised that a full time employee being off for two days a week doesn’t really work for them, so understandably don’t want to do it again.

I can understand why you feel this is unfair. It is unfair BUT they are allowed to do it for a number of reasons already suggested.

It’s very noticeable though that you said she was a single person - can you imagine the cost of the fees F/T for nursery

If I was in charge I probably would have shown mercy and allowed it but under your circs no way! As if the job could be done in three days each week then I’d not have hired a full timer to start with!

But your colleague's child will be in childcare at 6 weeks younger than yours will. Maybe you could try and look at it that way?

We have had a similar situation at my workplace where someone was allowed to do this, but then when subsequent people asked they were not allowed.

It was because it became such a nightmare with the first person doing it, which the business hadn't realised it would be when it was initially agreed. It caused a lot of problems, therefore the business said they were not able to approve it in future.

Annual leave can always be declined at the discretion of the business unfortunately, they can dictate how and when you take it.

Do you do the same job ? If you are both the same level could you consider a job share ? For example 2 and a half days each would your employer consider that ?

It may be the same but I doubt any nursery will let you just not use them for 6 weeks without losing a place.

If it's really important to you then I would put in a formal flexible working request. It won't force them to accommodate you but they will have to consider it properly and give you a business reason if they decline.

Wow she gets enough holiday to work 2 days a week 52 weeks of the year plus enough left over for bank holidays and mandatory closures? So at least 104 days of paid holiday a year? Where do you work, I want a job somewhere that offers 13 weeks of paid holiday to be taken in blocks around the year.

The only one I know of with so much holiday is teaching and she can't be a teacher if she's working 3 days a week all year round.

It is the same. They aren’t interested in the fact that you are having to pay more for childcare, because you are having to take all your holidays at once, while your colleague was allowed to take 2 days per week as holidays.

If you both get the same amount of holidays and you both receive the same pay for these holiday periods, as far as they are concerned there is no difference between you both.

Like you, I would be annoyed with this, but there isn’t a lot you can do. They only have to say that it doesn’t suit the company’s needs, so if you want to continue working there, you will have to do what they say!

Could you ask them to consider 1 day less a week using annual leave - and make sure you don't ask to take one of their busiest days off. That way you are trying to meet them in the middle but it still helps.

Alternatively, as it sounds like you have a partner, could you look for a new job that doesn't require as much childcare e.g. work evenings or weekends if your partner has a day job for example.

Time to look for a different job that offers condensed hours, flexitime or part time? I'd take delight in handing in my notice and stating the only reason is the new workplace is more family friendly and suits my needs.

You have the right to request flexible working (i.e. taking holiday every week) and they have an obligation to consider it. They don't have an obligation to agree.

If they agreed it for her but found it a disruptive pain in the arse for them as an employer, they have every right to turn you down. There is no precedent set, it's assessed on what meets the business needs at the time.

It's frustrating, sure, but HR haven't acted unreasonably. I empathise with your disappointment, though.

Could you ask HR if you could go on reduced hours or a 4 day working week (fitting the work of 5 days into 4) thereby giving you 1 day per week that you don't have to work and you're not impacted by loss of pay and the company aren't impacted by the loss of you not being around 1 day per week.

I know in my company, new parents and parents where their child is up to the age of either 6 or 7 can apply for parental leave (some of it might be paid but I fear most is unpaid leave) and they might use that for early childcare purposes. Is there something like that in your company?

Might that be something that you could apply for?

Can anyone explain to me how financially the impact is the same? It’s making my head spin but I think she comes off better from it? Am I wrong?

You tag it on to the end of your mat leave, so you have 6 weeks where you're not paying nursery fees.

So she has taken 64 days leave and chosen to spread over 8 months. They have asked you to take the same leave but all at once at the beginning of your return period. As long as you get the same leave, that's fair. Presumably you too could choose to take 64 days leave before you return, so 13'weeks paid holiday and therefore not need nursery.

Who the fuck gets 64 days holiday

I did the same as your colleague on my return from first mat leave, effectively working a 3 day week for 3 months.
Assumed I could do the same for return after second baby but was refused because they had someone covering my role they wanted me back full time or not at all. 3 days a week meant the job wouldn’t be covered.
I cited precedence but was told invalid as each application considered at time of submission. Annual leave request approved at discretion of line manager. What I should have done was return to work THEN submit the annual leave request. I wanted to give line manager notice of intentions to be fair, but that backfired.

I get around 35 days a year plus BH plus 2 weeks at Xmas so if I accrued leave while on maternity leave as well as leave from the new year I could easily do this.

Some employers might allow annual leave in one year to be carried into the following a/l year - so if someone goes on Maternity leave and gets 26 weeks of paid maternity leave and then takes 26 weeks of unpaid Maternity leave, they may still have annual leave from that calendar year that they are allowed to carry into the next annual leave year quota.

So, if you have an annual leave quota of 32 days leave per year and you don't take them, they could ride onto the next leave period, giving you 64 days to take in that leave year period.

That's a guess though.

Two days' leave each week for 8 months is the equivalent of 64 days or more (depending on the length of the months).
Six weeks' leave (assuming 5 days' leave each week is 30 days. Your colleague either has a lot more annual leave than you or is not using annual leave for all of this arrangement.
Annual leave requests are that: requests. They are only accepted if they meet the needs of the business. Your employer can tell you when to take your leave (e.g. some firefighters, teachers). Their only obligation in terms of leave is to allow you to take whatever is in your contract (which must meet or exceed the statutory minimum pro rata) at some point during the 'leave year'.
I suspect having two people in a similar role at the same grade working part time for a short period of time doesn't meet the needs of the business. It would certainly be challenging for me to accommodate that in my team at work.
Flexible working arrangements are similar. An employer must consider it but they have no obligation to grant it. That includes if others have been granted the same arrangement as you'd like.
Unfortunately for you, the other person got in first and was granted permission first. They can probably accommodate that for one person but not for two.
Recommend speaking to HR and then ACAS or similar if you're unhappy about it. Or, if your workforce is unionised, join a union.

Are your 6 weeks this financial year? That could explain it as budgets will have been set based on an annual leave allowance, not carrying over from a previous year. If her 8 months were in one financial year then it may be a financial decision