Changing a toast? Is that normal?

[PinkStarAtNight]

I know this is strange, but could I ask for some advice about toasting? You know, like at the dinner table, with a drink...I recently did my first ever toast and my FIL sort of changed it, and I wondered whether that's normal?

This happened over Christmas and I know this is a ridiculous thing to be obsessing over but it just came into my mind and its one of those times where you can't stop going over this one event in your mind in the middle of the night and can't sleep, so I thought it would be good to get some thoughts from others.

For context my parents brought me up in a religion which meant that we weren't allowed to do toasts. I left religion as a young adult and since then there's been lots of things about normal life that I've had to get used to doing (think Kimmy Schmidt emerging into the world and not having a clue!) and the practice of toasting is one of them. Over the years I've found it hard to get used to...its been funny sometimes because my DP has laughed at me for raising my glass in agreement with toasts but then putting it straight back down again without drinking, having no idea that this is a sign of being rude and that you don't agree with the toast! I simply had no idea, because it just wasn't something that was ever part of my life, it wasn't something that we were allowed to do, therefore I didn't give much thought to it and when I came into the 'real' world I found I didn't know how to do it.

Anyway, so this all means that I'm only just now getting used to how to participate in toasts. Having managed to do that successfully a few times, I decided to try initiating my own a few weeks ago. The context is that my MIL is currently in hospital after undergoing a serious operation in which she nearly died. It's been a really tough time for everyone and obviously we're all relieved that she pulled through and is going to be ok. It did mean that she wasn't home for Christmas so, after visiting her in the afternoon, the rest of the family (me, DP, FIL, BIL) had Christmas dinner without her, for the first time ever...DP took over her usual job of cooking Christmas Dinner and he did a really good job of it and I felt that as we all came together to have dinner, someone should say something...so as we sat down to start eating I decided to do a toast and I said:

'Here's to a lovely Christmas despite the challenges, to DP for cooking an amazing dinner for us, and to MIL still being here'

FIL sort of frowned a bit, sort of like a questioning frown, and looked at me and said 'to MIL's health!!!' sort of in a correcting tone, like he didn't think my wording was appropriate.
I was a bit embarrassed and conceded 'yes, to MIL's health!' and then we all raised our glasses and everyone said 'to MIL's health'...but that wasn't what I had originally said.

When I said 'to MIL still being here' I meant that we're all happy and thankful that she's still alive and we should celebrate that...but the tone FIL used seemed to suggest that he thought I was talking as if she was dying or something and he didn't like it.

I can't help thinking that I did something wrong, or broke some toasting rule that I was completely unaware of (like before with the not drinking)...it was just the way FIL frowned as if he didn't like the wording of my toast and thought it was wrong and then corrected it, and that's when everyone else joined in, and repeated his wording. Its not that I'm bothered about them using my wording specifically, just that I'm worried the fact he corrected it meant that he was offended and it means I've got another thing wrong/embarrassed myself again.

Is it normal for someone to make a toast and then others present at the table to correct it? Did I do the toast wrong/was there something wrong in me saying 'to MIL still being here' ?

I would appreciate thoughts from people who are more experienced in the practice of toasting than I am 😊

He didn't correct it, he added a couple of his own words. You are way over thinking this. It was a family gathering and you made a nice gesture. It wasn't a breech of etiquette at a state dinner.

I think there was a mildly odd feel to the wording of your toast, perhaps hence the frown, but not insulting or a huge faux pas or anything you need to stress over. From your description it sounds like fil changed what you said into more 'toast-y' language (to x's health is a very typical toast phrase, yours feels a bit more clunky) so that it could be repeated by everyone as they toast mil.

"MiL still being here" is a bit clumsily worded, and alludes to her nearly dying - also could imply that she's just hanging on, 'not dead yet!'. "MiL's health" is much more positive and forward thinking.

FiL might also have thought it was his place to do a toast, not yours.

I don't think that giving toasts are much of a thing outside of formal situations in most families are they? My family all drink wine and celebrate occasions together but we don't really 'toast' beyond someone saying "to the cook!" or "to Maggie, happy birthday Maggie!" or maybe "safe travels" I suppose. I've often raised a glass and never once given a moment's thought to toasting, or planned to toast, or noticed anyone else toasting.

Firstly, yes it is normal to add to a toast.
Secondly, you'd normally only toast for one or at most a couple of things - not a whole list.
Finally, I'm sorry but your toast does sound like you were saying 'we're glad MIL is not dead' which is a very worthy sentiment but might be a bit sensitive.
My advice is to keep it short and positive: To MIL and FIL, for being such wonderful hosts. The response from round the table would then be: To MIL and FIL - or else someone might add: And to Pink for providing the cake.
Hope this helps.

Your wording was a bit ‘wrong’ and your FIL picked up on that. He’s probably been through a tough time and wanted a more positive ‘take’ on the situation.

This is, however, the sort of thing I’d over-analyse to the point of sending myself bananas

I think it was possibly your FIL correcting what he thought to be clumsy wording (the ‘still being here’ part feels a little stark, although I get what you were aiming for when you said it), or possibly a middle-aged man feeling like he needs to make sure a woman stays in her lane and leaves the men to do the manly stuff like proposing toasts. You’ll have a better idea than me of which is more likely there. IME some older men seem to think you need a penis to propose a toast, even if it’s the woman’s own dining table 🙄

i think everyone else just went with the short, sweet and easy to remember/say part about MIL’s health.

'Here's to a lovely Christmas despite the challenges, to DP for cooking an amazing dinner for us, and to MIL still being here'

Question OP - what were you expecting everyone to say? The whole thing?

You are massively overthinking this. Yours was a bit wordy and the bit about mother-in-law was clumsy. Father-in-law put more positive spin on it and then your other guests repeated the easy bit.

Thanks everyone, you've confirmed that I'm not going crazy and I did in fact get it wrong, so at least I know I'm not imagining things...perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut and not tried to say anything. I often feel that every time I open my mouth or do anything its wrong, but I never know quite how or why and everyone else just instinctively does...

DP hasn't said anything to me about it, which he usually does when I've made a faux pas, so maybe it didn't stick in everyone's minds like it has in mine, but I just can't help feeling so embarrassed and that I really shouldn't trust myself to ever speak!!

Don't feel like that OP. No one else is thinking about it. Your husband sounds picky and mean to point out your faux pas. It's not his job to approve of how you interact with people. You said a nice toast, and everyone raised their glasses.

I don't think your toast was too long, but I DO think your MIL sentiment was too death-adjacent. Her health or her recovery would've been more appropriate.

For reference, it is nice to say one simple thing that everyone can repeat if they're in the mood for an all-cheer type of toast. You know, "The bride and groom!" or "To success!" A good finale for your toast would've been a simple "To Christmas!"

Welcome to the world of secular customs 😂🥂

Question OP - what were you expecting everyone to say? The whole thing?

I guess I just expected them to say 'to MIL' as they raised their glasses. But reading the replies has made me realise I got it completely wrong. I did say I had no idea about how to do toasts, I don't know why I thought I could do it...

Its only last year that I completely fucked up the candles on DP's birthday cake. It was the first year that we'd been together that his mum wasn't around to do it, so it fell to me...and I suddenly realised in that moment that I had never once in my life put candles on a birthday cake...I couldn't seem to make them all stay upright, and then I started lighting them from the outside in, so that I couldn't light the ones in the middle without burning my fingers!

Don’t worry I bet no one else is thinking about it. You did make it sound like your MIL was end of life (I’m guessing she’s not) and how lucky you were that she’s not passed away yet. A simple ‘to MIL’s health’ would have worked.

That's very sweet about the candles! You've found out about candle holders now, right?

No!??

Here you go! You secure the candle in the holder, which has a spike to stick in the cake. A lot of these come with candles already in the holders 🙂

Also, they make extra-long matches for this kind of lighting challenge.

https://amzn.to/41Z01ZJ

Thank you 🥰

Nothing to do with it being a toast. Your wording was strange and does imply she is dying. I can totally understand why her husband would correct you.

Toasting is not that common in most families or social situations in my experience so I wouldn't worry about whether you were "allowed" to or if you should initiate again

Just don’t do it again. Usually it’s a ‘happy whatever’. If you come from a background that forbids toasting (which is usually a brief clink of glasses) you should watch some more toasting & realise that you’ve been weird.

You sound very sweet and like you're trying very hard to fit in with your partner's family. I think the toast was a lovely gesture. I hope your PIL appreciated it.

"To X's health" would have been a more traditional wording. Was yours wrong? No. I think at my MILs last Christmas (which we all knew would be the last one) someone said something like "I'm really grateful we can all be here together today. Cheers!" Which was clearly an acknowledgement she was dying. No one minded. I think it's weird when among close families, these things can't be acknowledged.

One toasting tip, if you say "cheers" at the end, whatever you've said, everyone can just say that.

Also, I know you've left behind your former faith but your traditions and ways of doing things are important, too! You don't have to perfectly adopt all your DPs families customs. You can modify them and bring in your own, too.

Don't just never do it again. My partner always says to me "if somethings worth doing, it's worth doing badly" in that, you won't do it well the first time. Do it badly. Learn. Then keep doing it better, until you do it well.

Your wording was a little extreme for Christmas " MIL didn't die horray!" Basically which is true but too blunt for them. They prefer the more alluding to these things without spelling them out. But no you're fine. It's just toasting to someone's health is a frequent toast.dont sweat it.

Echoing PP; it's nice if a toast ends with a clear and obvious thing for everyone to say (which is why you can always pause and then say "Cheers!") I think that your FIL might have frowned because he wasn't sure how to respond, so added the "response" to steer others.

You remind me that I should re-introduce toasting to gatherings!

Same as all the above but I've never heard of not drinking after a toast as being rude! I mean who would even notice!

I disagree there. He's helping her to learn social etiquette and " normality" for want of a better word to deal with the wider world. If he was picking on her for the sake of it he'd have complained about her making a toast.