To vaccinate newborn or not

[confusedaboutclothes]

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines etc i’ve done my own research on whether i should be vaccinating my newborn but it’s hard to find unbiased facts.

What I don’t like, is the pressure that is put on us to do as we’re told with our babies. I don’t like the constant reminders, the phone calls and the pressure to vaccinate - it all feels like a box ticking exercise not because the NHS are actually worried about my baby.

Please be kind, I really am confused about this and would love some different perspectives

I'm a senior hospital doctor in a competitive specialty. I've worked in the NHS for 20 years. My undergraduate training was at both Oxford and Cambridge universities. I was made a scholar based on my 1st year exam results at Cambridge. I was well up amongst the cleverest people at my school, and I have always worked hard. I have had specific training in research methodology, in reading journal papers and primary research, and in meta-analysis of the same. I have performed research myself, I have published in good journals, I have presented at international conferences. I tell you these things for context on my thoughts of doing one's own research.
Have i vaccinated my child? Yes. I have done everything that has been recommended by the healthcare professionals, because I respect their advice and the process by which that advice has been derived. I have not 'done my own research', as I know that what I glean will not be as impartial and informed as that from the NHS. Forgive me, but are you sure your research is better than everyone else's?

Your requirements are quite specific! maybe start applying for funding for this?

I was born before the measles vaccine and contracted it. I was very ill and there was a point when the doctor told my parents that there was a good chance I'd go blind. Luckily I didn't but my life would have been so different if I had

Best post.

Typical first world mentality.

People have been rude to you because you deserve it. Absolutely stupid of you to not do it. You're not cute or clever by thinking you googled and heard some gossip stories and endangering your child's life.

If you read the causes of death in the Guinea Bissau report you come to this sad statistic that for measles in an unvaccinated group of 94 children , 9 children, ie nearly ten per cent died of the disease. If nothing else that statistic should put cold shivers down the spine of any parent.

OP, I completely agree with you that the government and NHS's response to COVID has been eye opening to me and I've realised the importance of not simply doing what you're told because someone tells you to.

It's made me appraise things like vaccines in a different way.

I think it's so important to have an open discussion and for people not to just shout you down. It's like a reflex for some.

We've been told for a long time that vaccines save lives and the benefits outweigh the risks but we'd be fools to simple nod and agree, without constantly questioning this.

There's no denying that vaccines cause quite unpleasant side effects in young babies and that the diseases we vaccinate against are currently very uncommon (thanks to successful vaccination programmes).

I've just had my 8 week old jabbed but thought much harder about it than I did for my 4 year old.

I was happy that the vaccines were the right choice but I reserve my right to question this and not just jump in line because NHS said so.

Yes! Thank you!

I have some sympathy for those parents whose DC were infants in the mid/late 1990s when the - now thoroughly discredited - Wakefield scandal was going on. Because at that very specific point in time it was not clear that he was wrong. But in the years following, there was a whole mass of new publications which showed that indeed he was.

But that's a very specific and time-limited group. And I hope those affected have gone on to get the vaccines - either when the parents came to trust that Wakefield was badly wrong or the DC deciding for themselves (as they are all adults now).

Glad you have found some posts useful and decided to vaccinate.

You have been very clear that you realise google is not a substitute for proper research and were asking for a steer. I have no idea why people have to be so rude. Give opinion, experience and even object politely. Never mind "be kind" just be civil.

Sounds like they haven't got to you too much, just ignore anyone being obnoxious it is a reflection on them not you.

Same! Although not a biological scientist but someone with an MRes in Clinical Research who worked in medical ethics and research management for over ten years, including on coronavirus research (2012) and mRNA vaccines. Also had my Covid vaccines as part of a clinical trial months before they were approved. Yet apparently I'm still part of some huge conspiracy to kill off the general population! And if not that I'm a 'sheeeeeeeeeep'

No healthcare messaging I have seen about any treatment, vaccine or other treatment describes them as completely safe and effective. Everything is a balance of risk and benefit where the benefits have been assessed as outweighing the risk. Can you highlight information that described the Covid vaccine as completely safe and effective?

Is the reality not that even if vaccinations made people more likely to develop skin complaints and asthma (and there is no evidence that they do), the overwhelming majority of people would still choose to vaccinate, because skin complaints and asthma are so much less serious than measles, polio, diptheria etc?

Something must account for the fact that in countries with good vaccine provision almost nobody dies of these illnesses, and in countries with poor vaccine provision, thousands of people do. If you don't believe vaccines are the reason, what do you think does explain this fact?

And if you accept the fact that vaccines do prevent these illnesses, but your issue is that you still believe they might cause asthma, would you still not choose a world with higher instances of asthma than a world with higher instances of measles?

Saying that a study is "looking at differences in vaccine disease only" in "underdeveloped countries" and is therefore not what you want is spectacularly missing the point, because you cant exclude vaccine-preventable diseases from your overall assessment of health. If you want to compare the general health of vaccinated people with the general health of unvaccinated people then you have to include the existence of vaccine-preventable diseases because those diseases exist. It's nonsensical to suggest you can exclude them from a study of public health.

It's like you want a study that says "Here is a comparison of the overall health of vaccinated people vs the overall health of unvaccinated people in an imaginary world where vaccine-preventable diseases don't exist and there is therefore no risk of catching them if you aren't vaccinated". What would be the point of that? That world doesn't exist.

And if you specifically want to compare the health of vaccinated people with that of unvaccinated people in countries with good vaccine provision, you have to account for the fact that unvaccinated people in these countries benefit from herd immunity by virtue of their being surrounded by vaccinated people. That is a major factor your study would need to control for - how could that be done?

This. Maybe this poster didn't have the Covid vaccine and is therefore not aware that the overwhelming majority of the appointment time was taken up with a comprehensive explanation of the possible side effects and risks of adverse consequences.

I know you’ve decided and got answers but I just wanted to share my experience, my Grandad had Polio as a young toddler, I’m sure treatment has advanced somewhat but not enough or else why would we vaccinate…..it is a horrible long illness, he nearly died but didn’t, once my G Grandma knew he would live, they thought he would die initially, they had many months of working out how and to what degree he would recover. His right foot was badly deformed and he walked with a limp but got away lightly compared to dying. It did however floor my Great Grandma and she was sectioned not long after he recovered as the stress brought on a mental breakdown.

I have also just recently finished reading an autobiography by a journalist I used to follow. He talks about his school days in the 50’s/60’s and how so many of the children he went to school with were mentally and physically disabled (a lot of blind and death children) due having been born in the time before vaccines.

I work with someone who is deaf because she contracted measles aged 3. Totally and completely deaf.

OP, don't trust anything you read on the internet unless you're absolutely certain the source is reliable. Anyone can put together a slick-looking website and dole out advice on healthcare- what you get from Google is totally unreliable unless you stick to sources like the NHS, peer-reviewed studies etc.

To illustrate my point, I'm a professional writer. I write content for websites, some of which are relatively well-known, on a vast range of topics- DIY, gardening, elder care, and healthcare to name a few. I do not have any qualifications in these areas, although I research my content rigorously. I will only write healthcare articles for sites that have my articles reviewed by an expert before publication to ensure what I've written is correct, but loads of sites don't do this (I won't write for them because I have no business giving health advice without review by a doctor/scientist). Unless the content is from a truly reputable source, there's a good chance it's been written by a total random with no qualifications in the area or even AI.

Vaccines save lives, and I think it would be a really good idea to discuss your concerns with your doctor. They'll be able to answer your questions accurately and allay any concerns you have about vaccinating your baby.

Edited because also quoted the wrong post 🙈

Jesus if I was an antivaxer @Ann3347 would have me lining up at the docs at daybreak with my arm out 😂

Measles left one of my dgc type 1 diabetic. It ruined her teenage years - didn't cope well at all. Measles has many side effects. Vaccinate.

You understand what you want is impossible? There is too many variables in day to day life, habits, family history etc. to be able to determine whether a vaccine had any effect (negative or positive) on much else besides the disease it was designed against. I mean, the fact you even asking this tells me again that you don’t really understand how research works. We aren’t trying to lie to you.

I think you are a troll.

I worked on a Coronavirus trial back in 2012 - it wasn't a new drug. It wasn't a new form of delivery either since mRNA vaccine research was also well established. It was just a case of tweaking what had already been done to be applicable to this particular coronavirus.

Also, the only reason that trials usually take 6-10 years is due to a lack of funding and resources. Usually, you do a bit, apply and wait for the next bit of funding, do a bit, wait for the next PhD student to pick it up. The difference with the Covid vaccine was that all available money and resources were thrown at it all at once, everything else was put on hold.

The Covid vaccine had to satisfy the same stringent criteria as any other drug/vaccine before it could be approved to be given to the general public. No changes were made to 'rush it through'.

A boy in my swimming class when I was 8 had the bottom half of one leg not formed properly. He was swimming to build strength and mobility. His parents had lived abroad and he missed the Uk vaccine program and he had got polio. And was permanently disabled.
That's the choice we make for our children, letting them benefit from previous generations saving future lives, by getting them vaccinated.

I recommend you book an appointment with your Gp to discuss your concerns. No good can come from reading websites. They are a load of rubbish, nowadays probably just AI generated anyway. And you don't have the scientific knowledge to read the medical journals going through all the evidence, which is the only info to trust. But your doctor does understand them and how vaccines work.

A risk taken on behalf of someone else. Which is why you defer to experts. Very reckless imo not to vaccinate against childhood diseases

Does Germany count?

Or Taiwan?

Does the impact on childhood cancer rates meet your criteria?