To vaccinate newborn or not

[confusedaboutclothes]

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines etc i’ve done my own research on whether i should be vaccinating my newborn but it’s hard to find unbiased facts.

What I don’t like, is the pressure that is put on us to do as we’re told with our babies. I don’t like the constant reminders, the phone calls and the pressure to vaccinate - it all feels like a box ticking exercise not because the NHS are actually worried about my baby.

Please be kind, I really am confused about this and would love some different perspectives

@pinkerseal that is an out and out antivaxxer book... It's not well researched and is basically one big summary of conspiracy theories dressed up as "science".

Do you understand that doctors, whom you trust to save your life, wouldn’t harm you for £10?

There seem to be experts here, so I'll ask again. Are vaccines the only way to get lifetime immunity from every disease? And is this true if you only have childhood vaccinations, or true only if you maintain boosters throughout adult life? Many thanks if anyone can answer.

If you choose not to vaccinate your child you should have to pay privately if they need icu

It depends entirely on the vaccine. There is no yes or no answer to your question. Some vaccines requires boosters (tetanus for example from the top of my head), some provide life long immunity. Some illnesses provide life long immunity when you catch them. Some don't. Some viruses mutate and require regular vaccination for the mutations.

No, vaccines aren’t the only way. But the other way - the actual exposure to a virus or bacteria and subsequent illness - is much more dangerous, as vaccines contain inactive bacteria and viruses or only their parts.

Also our immune system is very complex and our ability to generate life long immunity is more impaired as we age. Importantly, there are different types of immune responses and they differ in longevity, boosters produce antibodies that are available readily on blood but they don’t persist for more than approx 6 months, while long life immunity relies on T cells that “remember” the pathogen for life and can recognise repeat attack and produce immune response (but this takes a while).

What kind of research did you do? How many patients were involved? Was it double blind? Was it peer reviewed? Or did you just google something and call it research?

Pubmed is where the medical researchers publish their peer reviewed work. That's the only home research that you should take seriously.

@justteanbiscuits Thank you so much. I wish I could remember the epidemiologist's name. She was from Imperial and gave a number of interviews during Covid. She said, I am sure, that only vaccines provide lifetime immunity. Catching and recovering from any illness does not. Until then, I'd always thought having measles once gave life time immunity, but now I think the science must have shifted. Also, she didn't say whether boosters were required throughout life to maintain immunity, so I wonder how protected adults are, even if they followed the childhood schedule. What you say is what I thought, but she really confused me.

The vaccine will give primary immunity - if you come across the disease afterwards this can also act as a booster
Most mums of newborns now have no memory of diphtheria, polio, measles, rubella damaged babies either themselves or their parents.
I am 100% in favour of vaccines but still was nervous at taking my baby to have them done

"Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines "

The problem with this starement is that you don't understand why the research was quicker. Normally they research a, then if that went well b, then after that c. With covid they did all the researches a, b and c at the same time and accepted the consequences of the possibility of pursuing a dud in hope that it wasn't and completing the research faster.

But for all people saying ‘just do your research’ WHERE can you conduct comprehensive and unbiased research @Tryingmybestadhd? it’s no good saying ‘do your research’ unless you’re able to provide reliable resources, and so far the only people who have been able to produce such resources are those in full support of vaccination

You don't have to publish to do research...

I'm a research scientist and we don't publish. We patent.

I've also done dozens of literature reviews. Definitely research, definitely unpublished.

I agree with you that looking at Google isn't really research, but you've written a nasty gotcha/put down that isn't even factually correct.

@Happybunnytoday Thank you. Very interesting.

You can not speed up the amount of time it was in human trails it's not possible unless they invented a time machine too. A new drug is normally tested for 6-10 years to look for possible side effects this obviously was not done. The human trails for the covid vaccine are on going in all those that took it.

One of the problems is that the vaccination programme has been so successful that we seldom see these killer childhood diseases so have become complacent.

Truly, although you have not seen these illnesses, you really do not want your child to get them. I have seen these illnesses in action - not a pretty sight.

I'd suggest that you have a look at the plentiful and accurate information available about how smallpox was eradicated, OP.

Because what’s the point of not being kind? I’m sorry but how does calling me stupid help?
Am i stupid because i’ve asked what i thought would be a helpful supportive outlet for information and advice on a serious subject?
Am i stupid because im not a doctor, or scientist or because i don’t have a phd in such subjects?

Wouldn’t stupid being going against the grain and not vaccinating based on basic searches on the internet, or would it be someone trying to educate themselves further for their children’s sake?

I believe that I was injured by the covid vaccine (not the contents but the delivery - I've had a frozen shoulder for 2 years that began 2 weeks after my first jab, 3 medical professionals have since told me there has been a spike in FS possibly due to poorly trained volunteers stabbing folk willy-nilly) but was definitely in line for the second and subsequent vaccines.

You say you have done lots of research, that for every 9 positive stories, there is one bad story - how factually accurate is the bad story? What evidence is there to support that one? Compared to the literally hundreds of studies supporting childhood vaccinations?

You don't have to look back too many years to see actual numbers of children who died from now-preventable diseases, or who have been affected for the rest of their lives by the long term effects (eg blindness from measles, infertility from mumps caught as adults etc etc.)

The FACTS speak for themselves.

If you choose to drive you should pay privately for ICU if you're in an accident

Do you understand what the NHS is and what it's purpose is?

You must also think nobody can ever have a drink, eat red meat, go swimming, walk down the street, smoke a cigarette, cross an empty road without a green man, otherwise they should have to pay for private healthcare. After usually a lifetime of paying taxes into a system which is for use of EVERYBODY, not just your do gooding judgemental self.

Not quite true. It was fast tracked, so time was saved for example when talking to health authorities. And it was prioritised so all efforts were given to set up these trials and run them efficiently. Plus the previous poster is right, they did manufacturing and upscaling at the same time as running trials (at risk). Plus breakthrough medications can go from phase 1/2 straight to phase 3 etc. What you are saying about following people now, that is true and it’s called Real Word Evidence, but this is true for every new drug on the market.

You need to stop with catastrophisation of immunising your baby - which is a very mundane jab where the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

You need to stop googling these kind of rubbish queries in your browser as you will now have anti-vax bullshit being spammed at you for the next 6 months or longer2.

It still really annoys me that the UK lost its WHO Measles Free status in 2017 due to selfish people not immunising their DC. They think they are protecting their babies when in fact they are putting them and the rest of society at more risk.

Why do you say that covid made you question things? The covid vaccination saved circa 127k lives in the UK alone. Here is the Full Fact report . It also mentions 65 deaths. Conservatively, approx 50m people (aged 12 upwards) had at least 1 vaccine so that means the covid vaccine had a 0.0000013% chance of death which is infinitesimal.

Covid jab I understand - my kids haven’t been jabbed for that. I have however - and last week my partner had Covid, we still carried on as normal, had sex, kissed etc. I did not catch it.

I do know people who have been Covid jab injured though, so like I said - I understand why you wouldn’t give that.

however - babies jabs have been around years, they’re proven to reduce outbreaks of diseases, imo - if you don’t vax your kids it’s child neglect.

and whilst we’re on the subject of sticking things in your kids - getting their ears pierced before they ask for it is borderline child abuse

I am a practice nurse, obviously I am very pro vaccines but I am always understanding when parents want to research the vaccines first
the Green book is a really useful information book- you can look at any vaccine on it (Google the green book) and it will give you good research from a variety of resources in one place

Re stuff that touts itself as research against vaccinations really check out who is behind it - I have seen research by someone with "dr" titles for example which when you dig in they have no qualifications in any relevant field and are funded by dubious lobby groups.