To say no! Twilight sessions (unpaid)

[LorlieS]

Can't sleep I'm so stressed!!
I'm working as a HLTA - paid hours 8.30 until 3.30.
Just picked up an email sent today telling me I need to attend two twilight sessions from after school until 6pm. Needless to say these will not be paid for and the first one is this week!
AIBU to say no?
Oh, and I also have a 3 yo and her childcare only runs until 4.30.

Why don't you get one of your older children to look after the 3 year old OP?

Just asking as I recognised you from other threads where you say you're a teacher with older children too.

Oh, that changes things.
OP sounds very isolated indeed if she has raised children to teenage years yet has not a single person who could help with short notice childcare, or to have the wisdom that we all need support for the unplanned things that come up.

Some of us have literally no one, no wonderful neighbour who can magically step up, no relatives, no friends...

It must be very isolating for children if they grow up in a household where their parents have no friends etc

Ok, the notice for the twilight is not reasonable so just tell them you can't get childcare at this short notice. Then pause and let them try to come up with a solution. Do not suggest a solution at all. If they say bring her along, I would be really tempted to do so (three year olds usually cause carnage).

You need to check your contract though because insets/twilights are either included in your hourly rate or they are not. Ring HR to check if necessary. If they are not, then you need TOIL.

Yes, I understand that. It is unusual and makes me sad, especially in a family where children go to school, hopefully do activities, get invited to see friends.
It must be very hard to work when you have children, knowing you have no one who's got your back.

If you're the poster I think you are, I'm sure you have older teenagers? Why can't they mind your toddler?

I think with such short notice, it would be reasonable to say you can't get childcare sorted in time but, in future you should expect to have to do twilight sessions and need to put some thought into how you manage it.

It’s a week so is short notice but your DH and his requests for leave saying he can’t ask, he could ask. He may get turned down but he can still ask. It would be a half days leave. Honestly why do women when in a relationship continue to always be the ones who shoulder the stress of childcare. Make him ask. DH and I shared childcare completely, he took more inset days off than I did.

Wrt to: you must be isolated and i feel sorry for your older kids - where is the network, How weird ect ...

My dad is long passed away, my mum's 85 and a nasty piece of work, i'm an only child, so were my mum and dad, and all of DHs family live 2 hours + away.

I've got 2 good friends but they both work long hours and I've got older kids but they work and yes they've got mates and yes i know some of their parents but a) they all work long hours as well or are in kids clubs after school or at work like mine, and b) i just think my child care problems are my family's own!

I wouldn't be too happy about a parent of a friend of one of my older kids suddenly wanting to drop their 3 year old of in the evening so they can do work training!

In any case i wouldn't ship my 3 year old out to someone they don't know well, or to a house they don't know at all.

In this respect i'm with OP.

I don't, however, get the ''I'm leaving today and hoping for the best'' thing when she's said they're struggling for money.

This is absolutely 100% a problem for management.
It makes not one jot of difference what OPs contratc says, this is too short notice to arrange childcare.

Even next week is pushing it to arrange child care.

So the solution is that you write back to SLT and say - too short notice to arrange childcare.

if it is compulsory eg safeguarding training, then the head will need to arrange it at a time that you can do, or with a longer notice period so that you can arrange childcare.

It may be that OP is required to attend, but not with zero notice!!

You don't need mum/school gate friends. You just need normal friends/neighbours etc. Do you and your husband have no friends at all? So your circle is literally just your mum and your husband and that's it? Bizarre.

It is hard but it's really not unusual.

I do have some 'Mum' friends but they all work and have children that need putting to bed in the evenings too - the chances they'd be free to provide childcare at a week's notice in the evening when it's not an emergency is remote.

My parents are elderly and infirm to the point of being housebound and live far away, some of our family and friends are abroad. My longer term friends all live 4+ hours away because we've moved for DH's job. We're really not unusual in not having family or friends nearby to step in at a week's notice.

In an emergency - e.g. if one parent was seriously ill - people would rally round but I think it's a bit much to expect other people to rally round like that and put themselves out for a planned work event where the onus should be on school management to provide sufficient notice.

TAs, including HLTAs, are paid absolutely terrible wages for the level of responsibility they have and recruitment is almost impossible as in many areas you get paid more shelf stacking at Sainsbury's. So school management really do need to go the extra mile to support staff with out of normal hours training etc if they want to keep their staff. Giving at least a months notice should be the bare minimum. TAs aren't paid enough to cover emergency childcare rates.

There is no way I'd accept this level of notice for an out of hours event for a job paying a TA wages. If I was in a 40k+ job then I'd pay for emergency childcare. The type of job and pay of course makes a difference. If OP can afford to walk away, that's her right. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay as well as TAs with lots of vacancies at the moment.

The idea of leaving a 3 year old with a random stranger 'neighbour' just to do a TA out of hours training at a week's notice is laughable. Clearly the OP is not going to inflict that on her 3 year old.

You have a 13 year old and 16 year old. Why can't they watch your youngest for a few hours?

Is your daughter not at Nursery as she’s 3? If your mum is doing full time care of a 3 year old then no wonder she’s tired!

One PP mentioned bringing the child along.
A teaching colleague actually did this; our head teacher was a lovely man in many respects, but could slip on long-term planning, and had been known to call important meetings at very short notice. She had previously managed with backup plans, but just this once all attempts failed.
So we had a sweet little toddler at our meeting. He knew many of us as "mummy's friends", so he divided his time between chugging his toy train (with vocal sound effects added) and trotting around the gathering greeting us each warmly. He was a sociable child who loved the attention, but our noble head was deeply flustered by having an actual child in his presence, rather than discussing children as an abstract concept.
He showed a little more forethought after that.

YANBU to say no if they have just informed you of these sessions and they were not previously communicated.

YABU to say no if they were previously communicated in the school calendar (even if they were not in your calendar) and they are part of your employment contract you agreed too when you took the job.

Your childcare issues are not the schools issues.

What time does nursery close? Ours closes at 6 for full day, and have school day sessions (until 3.30 / 4pm). If it is the latter, can you not ask for extra hours are the nursery? At 3, they should be able to accomodate. Good luck

Why is your mum doing all of it? If England your dd is eligible for ft Nursery. And there will be other schemes running in the rest of the UK.

Please try to feel less stressed about it and put yourself in control of the situation. Explain that you cannot arrange childcare at such short notice and you are therefore unable to attend these sessions.

At a push you could ask if you can attend remotely and set your daughter in front of a TV with a snack while you join the session on Zoom.

The world won't end if you don't attend. If they try to discipline you point out the sessions are unpaid and you are free to work elsewhere. Schools can't find staff these days due to the ridiculous unpaid extra demands on their time. You are allowed to say no.

I very strongly believe that unless people say no to unreasonable demands from employers, those demands will keep being made until they are expected. Immaterial whether it is in your contract or not. Legal obligation isn't the sole priority. Childcare is essential and has to be prioritised over all else. You can't abandon your daughter. You can say no to an out of hours meeting.

I’m wondering about what the partners NHS job and why the pay is so low. A band 2 earns £22000+ pa, so the OP earns less than £8000 pa for a full time job?

OP wanted to leave her job anyway I think. As soon as logical answers came, she left the thread. Of course the teens could have helped. She was just looking for an excuse to hand her notice in. Wonder if she will return to the thread…

We have twilight inset sessions. These are normally in liu of a day off at the end of a term. You may need to check if this is the case.

I’m wondering how she is going to cope with studying for an MSc. I work in higher education and the teaching day extends into the early evening.

This is a good point. Anyone I know who has studied while raising as family has needed some support. OP, it might be worth expanding your support network beyond your aging Mum and not-available husband.

I was put in this position a few times when I worked in education with small children and childcare limited to normal working hours. ‘Unfortunately, I have no childcare available at those times so I won’t be able to attend the training’. You have no other option but to say no I can’t do it.